A SHTF Scenario – What Would You Do?

Before today’s post, congratulations to Rebel and Joe O for winning 1st and 2nd place respectively in the Caption this Photo and WIN post. Send me your mailing address (my email is in the About page) and I’ll ship your N95 masks off this week. Thanks to everyone that took part.

Thank you also the Shelf Reliance for becoming an advertiser. They have great products, quite pertinent to today’s post. Check ‘em out, they’ve got great prices on the 3 and 6 month fruit, vegetable, etc. freeze dried goods!

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There is a common theme amongst preppers. You prepare, want to tell others about your preparations, and want others to prepare – but you’re hesitant to talk about it. You’re afraid that if some serious catastrophe happens, everyone will come to you for help. It’s hard enough prepping for you and your family, let alone prepping for others.

Inevitably someone will find out. Maybe you tell a friend (or two) or maybe a few family members. Maybe you meet someone who is like minded, so you tell them. Then you realize the people aren’t prepared at all, they just talk about it. Maybe your friends’ idea of prepping is to buy guns and ammo … and nothing else. Who hasn’t heard “if the shit goes down I’ll just come to your place”? And you can picture these people rolling into your driveway after the SHTF, guns in hand, expecting to survive anything with their guns and your food. Then you begin to wonder if you should have told anyone at all.

You’ll eventually ask yourself the question, “what will I do if they come?” Could I turn a hungry friend away? Could I turn a friend’s starving child away?

You don’t know until you’re in the situation, and the answer varies depending on the exact situation. For example, if you’re sitting on 6 month’s worth of food and an earthquake just hit, sharing food with friends is an obvious decision. If a few nukes hit, you have 3 kids and virtually no food, turning hungry friends away is also an obvious decision.

It’s the “gray area” that I grapple with. I don’t know what I’d do under less obvious circumstances. It’s why I want your thoughts. Let me pose to you a specific scenario and tell me how you’d respond. There are no right or wrong responses. Everyone is different.

Hypothetical Scenario

You’re a 3 person household – one child and two adults. You have 3 months worth of food and water stocked away for the 3 of you, 4 months of food if you stretched it.

Day One – an EMP hits. The grid goes down completely. Local authorities say it’s down across the entire state and the bordering states. That’s all the news you know. All grocery/convenience stores go empty. All gasoline stations go dry.

Day Three – local authorities say the federal government will air drop food, water and supplies to your town in 3 days.

Day Six - no air drop. Local authorities now say it’ll be 4-5 days before supplies come.

Day Seven – your neighbor has his home broken into, but the intruder runs away when your neighbor yelled that he had a gun. The two of you discuss taking turns staying up at night, outside, watching over each other’s house.

Day Nine - a close friend, his/her spouse and their 2 kids pull into your driveway. They drove from 45 minutes away. Your friend came to you for a reason, he/she knows you have food and water, he/she knows you’ve prepped. Your friend asks if they can hold up with you until all of this “blows over.” He/she (besides hungry mouths) brings 8 cans of mixed vegetables, a few cans of soda, 2 rifles, and some ammo (items you already have).

You haven’t heard from your parents, sibling or in-laws. They know you have a food supply, too. You’re hoping at least some of them will show up.

Those are the only variables you have to work with. Do you let your friend and his/her family stay with you? Why or why not?

Again – no right or wrong answers.

- Ranger Man

  • Jarhead Survivor January 11, 2011, 8:16 am

    This *is* a tough question. I’m currently writing a post that talks about helping family, but as for friends and their kids… Man, that’s a tough one.

    I guess the hard question is, “How much can I give away before putting my own family in danger?” If the answer is none, then you just have to draw a line in the sand and send them packing. Maybe give a few cans of food for the kids, but I won’t let my kids starve to feed others. It sucks and it’s a tough damn decision, but the fact is in this scenario I saw the writing on the wall and took steps to prepare for the worst case scenario. The kicker is that everybody could read the writing, but some chose to ignore it.

    One thing you could do is set aside food for just this scenario. When people show up give them a little food and then send them on their way.

    Now, if that person or someone in the family has some serious skills to bring to the table, let’s say a doctor, or a farmer, or something like that, we can work out a deal of some sort. I think that the community pulling together at a time like that will be crucial to survival. Maybe the only way.

    Reply
  • dancenbear January 11, 2011, 8:21 am

    i couldn’t turn a friend and his family away just on principle,also if the grid doesn’t come back up for some time having a few more people around you can trust would be a premium . 1st step put everyone on a regime of multi vitamins and take their canned provisions and add them to mine (canned foods and non perishable foods will only be eaten if their is nothing else available) and then only if you haven’t eaten in a couple days 2nd step assign responsibilities,while everyone still has strength they begin hunting,foraging ,ect,ect, the group eats collectively on what is hunted or scavenged if they dont know how they learn by being paired up with members of my family that know how (foraging books are available in my library ) unfortunately do to lack of personnel every sub group within the group will have to be their own security luckily me and mine have their own guns and know how to use them . in this particular arrangement responsibilities would be assigned this way 2 adult males either one or both would be hunting and providing a loose perimeter guard in the process ,depending on how much heavy work needed done elsewhere .friends wife and my eldest daughter would be at home providing security ,preserving,cooking, hauling water ect,ect .my wife and the other three children would be foraging in a predetermined area away from were the men are hunting but they also carry weapons for security and hunting they will most likely flush a lot of small game in the process and if vigilant will provide the group with most of our daily caloric intake . this arrangement will be implemented immediately but may and probably will change as i learn the strengths and weaknesses of the individuals within the group

    Reply
  • Casey January 11, 2011, 8:58 am

    The way I see it you almost have to take them in not out of compassion but for security. Because if you turn your friend away he gets pissed off and starts blabbing to everyone that you have preps and now everyone in the area is coming to your place. Do you have enough ammo, supplies, or people to defend against an entire mob? At least for me I do not right now as I just have started prepping which puts me in a worse spot.

    Reply
    • Casey January 11, 2011, 9:12 am

      Its amazing how fast friends can turn into enemies when their families lives are on the line. Just look at when places get blizzards fathers getting arrested to fist fighting it out over the last pack of bologna.

      Reply
  • Rushman January 11, 2011, 9:08 am

    I have to agree this is a hard one. A good friend would be hard to turn away a so so work friend would be much easier. The children impossible as they are the future and should not be blamed for the short falls of their parents. J.R. the godfather of prep would say you should have some stores to give away as charity in your preps. But hey I am a lot less prepped then others on here….

    Reply
  • WAIF January 11, 2011, 9:30 am

    I have had this Discussion with the wife

    We will take People In BUT only the Kids will be Fed

    Talking with a Close Friend, I said ALL my Preperations are NOT for me As a First Line,
    The Kids are the Future and Must Be protected

    Not everyone will agree with this BUT I have Three Young Children and IF Something was to Happen to me & Wife my Agenda should see someone take care of Our kids.

    I hope thats True AND we never have to Find out

    Reply
  • Spook45 January 11, 2011, 9:32 am

    YES, without thought! Your friends and family are half of the reason you do what you do. Im not gonna open a freakin borading house, but I would most certainly allow my friends and family IN! I must also stipulate, that my friends and family are pretty well prepared also and would have stuff with them, so now we have more stuff and more armed bodies for protection and defense. And, one more thing, during an EMP event, most(almost all after cash for clunkers) vehicles have solid state circuitry and would not run during and EMP event. I guess they have a classic car huh?

    Reply
    • Ranger Man January 11, 2011, 9:49 am

      The EMP Commission’s report threw into question the notion that all modern cars will become disabled in the event of an EMP. Their study was limited in scope, but assuming their results have some element of accuracy, many cars will function just fine during an EMP strike, particularly if they were not running at the time of the strike.

      Reply
      • geologyjoe January 11, 2011, 12:00 pm

        better have your bicycle ready.

        Reply
      • Spook45 January 11, 2011, 1:03 pm

        Heh; I dont put much faith in thier studies, they are usually wrong in conclussion and on very often are manipulated to show what they want instead of the study or evidence showing them the way. Past testing from ww ii and other Nuclear tests put nearly all solid state circuitry on the slab. While Im sure some cars would still work, Im betting it would be a very limited number with unique circumstances. I keep mine in a garage(when Im done for he day) mostly underground so I have hopes that in such an incident it would be protected. Some cars can be off grounded(remove the battery terminals and ground them both to the frame) and the discharge might get up and running if there is no permanant damage. Cars with points and condensor ignition systems would still run. A little off subject, but I am betting in a real EMP event, or a widespread event of that nature, I think MOst cars will be TOAST. To answer the question at hand tho, I would definatley take in my family members and friends.

        Reply
    • Odd Questioner May 15, 2011, 9:46 pm

      “Past testing from ww ii and other Nuclear tests put nearly all solid state circuitry on the slab.”

      Not quite…

      Note that most of the tests from the early Cold War used electrical components that were pretty fragile, and damned sure not able to take even much physical abuse, let alone electromagnetic.

      You *can* harden electronics against EMP, but it takes a bit of work (I offer as proof the massive MILSPEC volumes concerning electronics, which all combat aircraft require. Those babies can hold up against an EMP).

      In the civilian world, two things can go a long way to insure that your gear doesn’t fry in an EMP:

      1) keep the real vital stuff in a Faraday Cage (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage ) – chicken wire can be used for this.

      2) keep it powered off. The biggest reason an EMP fries electronics is due to power surge by induction over (magnetically) exposed wire, which will cause already active (read: energized) circuits to fry due to overage. un-energized circuits would pick up some current, but will quickly dissipate it over its own circuitry.

      You may want to read further in these sections:
      http://www.ornl.gov/sci/ees/etsd/pes/pubs/ferc_Meta-R-320.pdf (that gov’t report that’s being bandied about)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse (a very light primer on what an EMP is, and how it works).

      BTW – The problem with the “One Second After” scenario is that, in order to plow the entire US with an EMP burst, you have to pretty much put your weapon in *space* (that is, 300 miles above sea level, or over twice the current orbital height of the International Space Station). Most ICBMs don’t go anywhere near that high (their trajectory is made for distance, not height), and only a very small and literal handful of countries have the rocketry to get something that far up (think Russian Energia-sized rockets).

      Reply
      • Suburban Survivalist May 16, 2011, 9:05 pm

        Odd Questioner,
        The only difference between a rocket that sends a payload into space (space launch vehicle, or SLV) and a ballistic missile, is the payload (e.g. satellite or warhead) and trajectory – the rest is the same. Even some short-range ballistic missiles can achieve an altitude of 300 miles, it is only a matter of changing the flight path from sub-orbital to orbital, which is relatively easy. Several versions of even the SCUD SRBM could get to 300 miles. In fact, using a ballistic missile for an EMP attack is actually simpler than using it for a nuclear attack since the warhead doesn’t have to survive reentry into the atmosphere and still function correctly. One Second After had that right. The actual effects of such an EMP, however, is a bit debatable.

        Reply
        • Odd Questioner June 4, 2011, 12:24 am

          Dunno about SCUDs – even IRan’s heavily modified version has a max altitude of 150 km, or 94 miles. You’d have to fire it straight up…

          Now China? Yup – in a few years, easily.

          Reply
  • Prepared N.D. January 11, 2011, 10:24 am

    I would take them in for several reasons.

    First of all, I only have 3-4 months of food and the grid is entirely down. It’s going to take years to get back to normal and months to get a black market economy going (depends on time of year and growing season I guess). These little black markets that are going to open in the upcoming months for resupply (if they open at all) are going to be dangerous locations – I could use the extra security of my friend when trying to resupply.

    We’re going to have 3-4 months to become as self sufficient as possible, we’re going to need man power for this.

    I only have one kid, my kid would probably enjoy the company of two other kids and kids can work great together on small projects.

    This decision does cut our food supply by more than half, but the fact is we’re screwed anyway. We need food and we need man power. If my family / other friends show up 4 months from now when I don’t have food, they’re not likely to stay even though we could use the extra help. If I take them in now while I still have food, they’re more likely to stay once we’re out of stored food.

    Reply
  • Jack January 11, 2011, 11:07 am

    Yes. Two adults with a child are not enough to provide security, you need more adults to make sure you can keep your 3-4 months worth of food (now 2 months of food). He has a working EMP proof vehicle (thanks Spook45) and his spouse and kids can work too. You, your spouse and kid need someone they know and can trust at your back. You need labor to start/defend your garden, dig outhouses, barricade/sandbag your house, etc. No brainer – take them in, you other family members may never make it and you’ll be overrun by MZBs all by yourself.

    Reply
  • tjg January 11, 2011, 11:20 am

    The issues are time to recovery and immediate threat. If you have 4 months of food for three and your friend and his wife and two kids show up, you now have starvation rations for 2 months, less if your family shows up. If you can last until recovery, of course you share, but it you have to wait 6 months to harvest or for a government rescue, you just condemned your family to death and didn’t save the friend. Obviously, it is better to be alive and hungry than well fed and dead. So, if looters are present, then extra security may well be worth the food expense, so too if you have other pressing needs for help eg. gathering food, water, fuel etc.

    Other than giving all your supplies away in the hope that a government rescue will happen immediately, (and you would not be prepping if you believed that) the most foolish thing you could do is give some food away. That would be like saying to your friend, “Here’s a ham sandwich. Now go somewhere else and watch your kids starve.” That ought to work real well.

    As far a children being the future. That is a trueism that isn’t true. Adults can survive without children. Little children cannot survive for long without adults. Fertile adults can have more children, dead children cannot. In my case I am the expendable one. I am young enough to have more kids, but too old to insure that they would have a reasonable chance of growing up.

    “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion (or compassion), they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
    John Adams

    Reply
  • Jim January 11, 2011, 11:56 am

    This is a much discussed subject in our prep group. We have been working over a year on our EES (Emergency Evacuation Shelter) Plan to deal with this very issue. I just posted a couple of days ago on this at our blog/forum, http://www.bsoscblog.com, under the subject line BSOSC Annual Report… In addition to personal prepping, members here in the Bitterroot Valley are encouraged to have at least a 3 wk to 3 mo. storage of supplies at one of our EES and even at 2 sites if possible to keep their prep supplies “cached” at separate safe locations in the event of being overrun at their home in a post EMP type event. Each of the X number of EES locations is set up to run off grid and are necessarily equipped. We have compassion tempered with common sense as to the support capabilities for each EES in dealing with those coming for help. We sincerely assure people that the purpose of our group is to teach people, assisting them to prepare now so we don’t have to shoot unprepared looters later. Though a tad challenging, our goal has been to bring each EES up to being capable of supporting 50 people for that key, most dangerous 3 wk to 3 mo. period following a catastrophic disruption event. We have an excellent ham radio communication network and are starting to work on extending this out to link to other preppers via HF ham radio bands. We invite any of you to check out our blog/forum site where we are doing everything we can to share a lot of prep info to help all working in this regard…Jim

    Reply
  • Joe or Harry January 11, 2011, 12:15 pm

    This is a perfect example of why you MUST get your friends & family on board NOW. When a Holiday or Birthday comes up, buy them something that they can use lateron if something happens. PS-off topic–Now’s a good time to renew early, upgrade or become a member for the 1 st time of : the NRA or Gun Owners of America or CCRKBA or Second Amendment Foundation, your home State gun org, etc. NYC Mayor Bloomberg & a bunch of other Mayors, is on the TV giving a press conference for about an hour now. They WILL try to pass some Federal laws. 100+ Million gun owners are benifiting of the ‘insurance policy’ that only 4 million gun owners are paying the premium on.

    Reply
  • Presager Buddy January 11, 2011, 2:49 pm

    This is an excellent situation and I have thought about it many times.

    First, I have put preps aside for family and friends. Second, the friends who know that I prep are fairly serious preppers themselves. One of them, in fact, who I have known for a long time, is actually included in plans to face such situations on the level you suggest in this post. Third, Casey got it right in a comment above in saying that to deny aiding a friend you might produce a security risk.

    Civil Defense published some good manuals years ago on how to manage and live in a shelter. Some of these manuals are still available on ebay and are listed under “civil defense”. Using a resource such as this, even though they are dated, may help establish guidelines and give other information that could be useful if confronted with this scenario. Being organized and prepared in this way would help all to survive.

    Otherwise by planning ahead and stocking a large supply of the Mormon Basic Four (wheat, powdered milk, sugar and salt) plus a large supply of other grains and legumes your family can absorb the extra two or three who come begging. The cost of storing extra of these items is not hugely expensive. Having a grain mill and knowing how to prepare food from these reserves is essential.

    Reply
  • rebel January 11, 2011, 3:02 pm

    Jack and Prepared came closest to my thoughts. They have wheels and extra manpower. With these your can hunt / gather food / provide security – otherwise your wife and you will be operating on significantly reduced mental capacity trying to run the house and provide 24×7 cover.
    The wheels will also be handy scouting if/when the Gvt food drops come – otherwise you will have to go out solo looking for food drops, and leave your wife behind. – and how much can you really carry home yourself?

    Reply
  • Madmax January 11, 2011, 4:25 pm

    Tell everyone it was a “phase” you were going through when “Fallout 3″ was the hottest thing on PS3… tell them you ate all your preps because you got broke and got rid of everthing.

    Say that they were right, when shtf happens “we’ll just go to Costco.”

    Play stupid, play broke, admit that you’re “fucked” if anything big happens… Works for the 3rd world. It could save your prepe.

    When shtf and people show up, just say “dude i wish, i’m in the same boat as you are, bet you wish you didn’t talk me out of prepping, huh?”

    Maintain an “i’m over this doom thing” and act cornucopian and blissful while prepping like Noah before the flood :)

    Grow a garden with these grasshoppers who played all summer, however. If they can ‘prove’ their worth, they might be cool to instruct.

    Reply
  • GoneWithTheWind January 11, 2011, 5:36 pm

    My grandfather owned a store and after the 1929 crash he would allow good customers to “buy” food on the cuff with a promise they would pay him back. But as the depression deepened he went bankrupt and the little store had to close. Then my grandparents and his 7 children and their spouses and children had to plant a garden and wait in line for handouts at city hall to live. I remember asking my parents (in the 40′s) why he didn’t close the store and eat the food themselves. My mother replied with one of the few things about the depression that made perfect sense to me, a true “aha” moment. She said because we had no idea it would get so bad or last so long. The government kept telling us things were getting better.
    I believe when TSHTF it probably will hit with “plops” over a very long time and not a dump truck load of poo all at once. We are in a recession, it may be a depression but we can’t tell. maybe some high school student in 2030 will read about the great depression of 2010 – 2020. But today it just looks like a bad recession; just a few plops of poo. Should you err on the side of caution? Isn’t that the question? What is the precendent for that caution? Not just “the great depression” our history has been full of depressions some long and deep and some not so much. But arguably at the beginning of everyone of them most people did not think they were entering a long depression. Mankinds history is replete with economic and social upheaveals, droughts, famines, war, repression, pestilence, etc. If you have 3 months or even a years supply of food should you give/share it with non-family? I know my answer. You must decide based on what you know and what you do not know. Meanwhile; plop, plop…

    Reply
    • Ranger Man January 11, 2011, 8:41 pm

      “She said because we had no idea it would get so bad or last so long. The government kept telling us things were getting better.” You tuned into a variable I was hinting at with the local authorities telling you help will arrive and then it doesn’t, and then the date gets pushed back further.

      Reply
  • Old School January 11, 2011, 7:04 pm

    This is why we sent out letters to everyone we thought may show up. We listed everything needed including food, weapons, ammo, personal effects, etc.
    At the botttom we said: If you don’t have it, don’t come.
    We have put everyone on notice that they will be turned away…

    It may take years for things to turn around and you just can’t play games…

    Reply
  • ChefBear58 January 11, 2011, 11:12 pm

    GoneWithTheWind- has a good point, though I have to say you didn’t make it obvious. The old saying “Those who don’t know the past are destined to repeat it!”, seems to be more and more valid every day!

    As far as the post, PERSONALLY I would have a hard time telling kids to turn tail and hit the pavement. I am also doing some minor preps to address this potential situation, I have about 16 cases of MRE’s ABOVE & BEYOND my preps for the family. The plan is, if friends/family come, the ones who know to come here know to bring everything they will need, along with firearms, ammo, reloading equipment, tools, any fuel they can pick-up on the way and first aid supplies. All of them know ahead of time that anyone who is unknown to me and my folks will not be allowed so don’t bother bringing them! When they do bring somebody (it’s bound to happen) they will be given 3 MRE’s and 1 gallon of water each along with a compass/map, hatchet , skinnin’ knife, and a fishing pole with a couple lures. After giving the “uninvited” folks that, they will be told that there is not enough supplies for everyone but if they come back after a couple weeks unarmed and with good intentions we can talk. Of course if they can articulate that they have skills that would benefit the group, they can stay, but we have a “quarantine” plan set up, so they would be required to “rough it” about a mile from the house until a time when the majority of the group feels comfortable letting them in. When something along these lines comes to pass, trusted friends will be worth their weight in gold!

    For unknown people that just show up, their chances of joining the group is slim to nil (and slim just left town), Again if they can articulate that they have valuable skills or something to “bring to the table” then we can talk, but the same “quarantine” idea would be implemented. I have already cleared an area for the “camp” within sight of the house while gathering firewood. There is access to clean water and it’s on a hill that allows for a great view of the surrounding area. This is also planned to be an observation post when there aren’t people occupying it.

    Either way, they either produce or leave! If you can’t hunt/fish/garden/chop firewood or whatever needs to be done, then consider yourself gone! The defensive plans I have drawn up should cover anyone coming back with a “mob”. If we find ourselves in a long term (>6 months) situation, the roads in will be blocked, defensive posts established and patrols who will be hunting/fishing/trapping while watching out for people. This is gonna be a big group effort, but there are enough natural resources and enough people around me taking the “prepping game” seriously that we should have little trouble keeping everyone fed.

    Along the lines of ensuring you have a working vehicle, anybody think a Faraday Cage could be scaled up to line a garage?! Just curious if anybody has any thoughts!

    Reply
  • Jack January 12, 2011, 9:29 am

    ChefBear58 – RE: “Faraday Cage could be scaled up to line a garage”

    I think it would just be easier to have replacement electronic parts in a small Faraday Cage than to try to EMP proof your entire garage.

    I’ve also thought it might be worthwhile to pick up an old vehicle with a (non-electronic) engine that you can rebuild and keep in your garage/barn now, (maybe with a spare 3 speed transmission) so if there’s an EMP, you’ve got a rolling vehicle. Something easy to work on like an old in-line six cylinder would also work well with wood-gas, if the event lasted longer than 6 months and all the gasoline was gone or spoiled. You could keep a couple sets of engine/transmission seals/gaskets on hand if case you need to do another rebuild several years after SHTF.

    Reply
    • ChefBear58 January 12, 2011, 5:55 pm

      I am thinking the single bay of a garage, not simply for the vehicle but I am also looking into ham radio. The radio, a vehicle and other electronics could be stored inside of the garage in one “handy” place. I am trying to save enough money to purchase an older dirt-bike and an old (70′s?) JEEP CJ, hopefully by the end of the year. They would be stored in the “Faraday garage” along with a small generator.

      One additional question for anyone who knows more about the subject than I do… Will sheet metal (like for duct) work to construct a Faraday cage? I have access to TONS of old air-duct sheet metal that would literally cost “next to nothing”.

      Reply
  • Jennie January 12, 2011, 10:10 am

    I haven’t read the other comments, so if I repeat things, many apologies.

    Yes. Yes I would take them in.
    I’m in a good spot, a nice quiet town in NW Iowa, with some food and water. More importantly the counties surrounding me have some of the highest concentrations of feed lots in the nation. :-D Gross stuff, smelly and I try not to eat meat from those types of places, but still essentially food. Massive fields of corn, again not high quality stuff, but it could keep a lot of people alive if there was nothing else to eat.

    More hands would be necessary to keep everyone alive. 2 more adult hands, (I am assuming that since they’re my friends they are handy individuals and not worthless wastes of space) would be invaluable to help. They can aid with security measures, garden expanding, food storage, food preparation, etc. And if family shows up, that’s cool, they can stay too, but it makes no sense to turn away perfectly good hands on the hope that others are coming. They might not make it.

    Even doubling the # of people eating off the stores, we could still stretch things for a couple of months. That’s time enough to get some veggie seeds in the ground and be close to harvest on some of the faster squashes and beans. During those two months they can help with the worst of the latrine digging and guard duty and everything else that hubby and I won’t have enough time to get done by ourselves. Because if the grid is down, it will be at least a year before things get back to normal, maybe longer and there will be LOTS to do to keep my family healthy. Most of those things are easier done with extra hands, and can just as efficiently serve more than the 3 in my family.

    Plus, it gets cold here in the winter, more bodies to share heat with is always good. Specially if my friend and his wife are hot. ;-)

    Reply
    • Ranger Man January 12, 2011, 4:00 pm

      lol – party at Jennie’s place WTSHTF

      Reply
  • Cruela January 12, 2011, 12:46 pm

    Well, as an overly generous contributer to the failing American welfare state, I say “you make your own bed, you sleep in it”. While you can argue that I make enough money to be in the top 6% nationally, so I HAVE to pay my share. I got here not by birth, but by working my ass off, working nights while going to school during the day, eating out of a can, and this was after serving for 4 years for Uncle Sam in some real crap holes. I don’t owe anyone, anything. I work 16hrs a day, I study whatever systems I need to to stay current, I bust my own balls working out to stay in shape, I make the sacrifices that I deem necessary to be here, so cry somewhere else about how you have nothing because you made poor decisions your whole life. Americans are for the most part a bunch whiny little helpless bitches. I need my cable TV, I need my fast food, I need my online social support network, I need free health care, I need…a punch in the face by the reality fist. Oh, and you can come take all of my acquired toys and I will still give you the middle finger because you cannot take my drive! So jog on because I don’t want you.

    Reply
    • Jack January 12, 2011, 4:00 pm

      My guess is that Cruela de Ville doesn’t have any ‘close friends’ who’d want to work with him/her. Probably just acquaintances who’d shoot him/her first with their ‘rifles and ammo’ and then take what’s left. Hopefully, in this scenario, they’ll let the spouse and kid live.

      Reply
      • Cruela January 12, 2011, 7:29 pm

        Wrong answer, Jack. I have plenty of people who want to work for me. I am not sure what the whole ‘close’ homo-erotic thing is, but that is fine if that’s what works for you. Just don’t expect a blood transfusion from my camp when your boyfriend gets the HIV. You missed the whole point of my post. I will take care of me and mine, but that is MY choice not some premandated law. All of you self-rightous, holier than thou types are only able believe those lies because of the excess production created by the energy surplus. Once we return to a balanced state on this planet we will see how you choose to treat your fellow man…if you make it past the final cut. And your comment about someone shooting me, reminded me that I forgot to include video games in my earlier post. All of you freaks living in fantasy land…I got level 87 on Halo 3. I got to come home alive which is better than any game. Take care and sweet dreams.

        Reply
        • Jack January 12, 2011, 8:53 pm

          My guess confirmed. Hey, your name isn’t really Loughner is it?

          Reply
          • Cruela January 13, 2011, 8:11 am

            Yes, Jack, you are so perceptive. I am a mentally unstable halfwit (so that narrows me down to 32% of the general population) whose parents didn’t give me enough attention and so now I have gone to seek my claim to fame. Using a 9mm pistol with a non-functioning mag that I didn’t opcheck and ammo that I purchased at Wally World (that morning), I set in motion my glorious plan for revenge. Your last name must be Ass.

          • Jack January 13, 2011, 9:01 am

            Another guess confirmed! And we can all tell from this thread who is the ‘Ass’.

            It’s amazing to see people who think they’ll survive SHTF when they can’t even read and respond to a simple question, are intolerant and inflexible, have no friends, and have zero social skills… tsk, tsk…

          • RealDeal February 12, 2011, 9:37 pm

            Jack you were the one being an ass and basically insulting Cruela with your mean spirited comments about how ‘friends would shoot him and hopefully let the kids survive’ Cruela gave an answer to the question, just because you think differently and would let people in doesn’t mean you can go off insulting someone on this forum. You are really in the wrong with your over the top dumb-witted insults comparing cruela to loghner and saying cruela has no social skills. Stop attacking people , that is a veteran you are talking to and a self sufficient proud American. Perhaps you are probably on welfare and a supporter healtchare and does not like Cruelas comments. Regardless, you are the intolerant one and need to grow up.

  • Bill January 12, 2011, 4:38 pm

    the 2 kids can stay. their parents can stay for 10 days in order to find other arrangements for themselves. after the 10 days they must leave, but their kids can stay or leave. thats up to the parents.

    choices have consequences

    my family comes first.
    the kids are innocent victims

    Reply
  • Gene January 12, 2011, 10:34 pm

    I would take the meal I had planed for that day and share it with them. We would have less but help them. I would tell them that that is all I can do and only this one time because my kid must come first so please go back home. I would defend what I had and not show my preps to them or anyone. Others may come and would get the same treatment. Charity is very important but survival is everything. This would apply when my own family came begging. Maybe I couldn’t live with the decision but that is on me and me alone. My wife and kids would survive.

    Reply
  • JeanneS January 13, 2011, 6:13 am

    I guess I get off lucky with this question, because I only have one close friend with a child who lives nearby enough to show up at my place rather than go to nearby rural relatives — and that lady is a Cordon Bleu-trained chef, with a husband who is a skilled leather-worker & metalsmith, so you bet I’d take them in! My daughters are 18 & 22 and don’t have kids yet; all my other friends are childless by choice or in the same situation as me (grown kids, no grandkids), or have country-wise parents in nearby rural areas who would gladly take them in (so they’d come to my place only as a last resort).

    Reply
  • albert olmes January 13, 2011, 6:15 am

    i have canned goods, red wheat, honey rice, soy sauce, salt sugar, beans, alot of free canola oil, 300 55 gal barrels, 10 260 gal tanks hooied to my gutters, garden prepped with leaves cow dung horse dung, ammo guns a new 3200 sq ft concrete house in woods well septic metal roof coated with cool seal, over looking a 20k game reserve. barrels of fuel, gas, 2 motorcycles small, vw deisel 1984 and my game plan for others is 10 barrels of sealed edibble corn for grits corn bread corn flower. i will put them to work cutting fire wood, security, i have a well 300 ft generator, sky lights in house roof, but i will share the corn (cheap) but they must bring squirrls rabbits turkey, deer, (plentyful) and cook outside on the several rocket mass cook stoves, work in the massive garden, and bty put a small copper tube off the back of toilet water supply and bend it up under toilet seat for cheap tush wash as friends and neighbors relatives will use out house and haul watter for tush wash using 55 gal barrels.

    Reply
  • albert olmes January 13, 2011, 6:33 am

    ……i forgot my name is fake lol and the house is backfilled with dirt 10 ft con. walls frnt sticks out of hill and my buddy owns the 200 acre farm below in the valley. we have rolls of 6 mil plastic for frnds to make shelters outside, i have warned alllll my friends and others, and when they come to me for help i will make them pay their way one way or an other. thoes who have helped will get great treatment. i have spare chain saw oil chains axes, 2 elec hyd. log splitters and i plan to use 15 55 gal blue plastic barrels stacked in pyrimid with trap doors for chicken koops, i have heirloom seeds stored ten ten ten fertilizer 4 5 yrs for garden, i just learned u can grow potatoes in winter by covering them with 12 inches of leaves. every yr. i go around and pick up bags of leaves for garden and i stocked up on cookware for outside rocket mass blanching of turnp grns and spinach. i have yeast in freezer, and enough of washing soda, powder and ivory soap for washing clothes, my wife does cuopon buying in bulk. i will get more rice, and barter water barrels, fire wood, garden vegies, and btw i made a cheap smoker for deer meat and learned to gut and dress 3 deer last 2 winters. i have sand saved up to combine with my own home made charcoal for a bio sand water treatment using 55 gal barrels and pvc. if u feel i am bragging, i am!!! i have put up with gloom and doom mocking esp from my co workers who watched me get the barrels from the food co. next door to our company as well as family members, and thoes friends who will inevitably show up. I need a still to make hootch, any body out there wanna help.

    Reply
    • Idaho Homesteader January 13, 2011, 2:44 pm

      Wow, you’re prepared and thought of everything. I’m sure you’ll have many people who want to be your minion while you live in the BIG HOUSE. (sarcasm off)

      Oh, you forgot to list the BULLS EYE that is taped between your eyes.

      Reply
  • IAHobbyfarmer January 13, 2011, 3:41 pm

    While this is still hypothetical at this point it’s a very real and scary scenario. I started looking into food storage which led to prepping a little over a year ago. I have since put my preps in high gear and just recently got my wife on board. While attending a sales meeting in PA last winter I was stranded for the better part of a week with 4 other associates. Our dinner conversation one evening ended up on disaster preparedness giving the situation we were in. I mentioned the information I had gathered on food storage during the conversation which I felt compelled to do, but did not mention actually having any preps in place. One of my associates quickly dismissed the idea of having any kind of food storage and simply said “If things get that bad, I’m coming to your house and I’ll do anything and everything you tell me to do”.

    This statement still haunts me for a couple of reasons. To start, he has 8 children!!!! Their family consumes well over a gallon of milk every day. The consume more food in a week than my family in a month. Currently I have a years supply of food for my family of 3, but adding 2 adults, 3 teen agers, and 5 other children would wipe me out pretty quick. The other thing that still bothers me about his comment and mentality is that financially he is in a much better position than I am, but chooses not to have any meaningful preps.

    I still can’t say what I would do for certain, but I doubt I would turn them away under the described scenario. I do have 11 fishing poles and a creek close by with plenty of catfish. You eat what you can find, catch, or shoot.

    Suddenly that family of 4 isn’t looking so bad now!!!

    Reply
  • albert olmes January 13, 2011, 5:45 pm

    …i have a family of ten 7 boys 1 girl ranging from 9 yrs old to 26 we have a large river 2 miles from home in woods, and near the house in town we have 2 huge lakes where red man bass tourn. are held. all my kids can shoot and no one i have told about the food stores and fuel stores knows where our house at the game reserve is, so idaho homesteader, there is no bulls eye as we will bug out as was our plan in the beginning 7 yrs ago. now idaho home steader, from what i have told every one where is my place and my storage. btw did u check out the rocket mass cook stove. and am i bragging again, yesssssssssss!!!!!!!

    Reply
  • albert olmes January 13, 2011, 6:11 pm

    …hobbyfarmer, your family is your main concern, no one else, if u feel guilty, buy 10 of my plastic 55 gal. barrels @ 20 bucks each clean them out, ie soap water as they had canola oil in them, dry them out, fill them with kernal corn, drop dry ice in them, for vaccum packing , seal them up and when the stupids show up have them forage for u and u feed them corn bread. remember people can see the economey going bust and choose to be stupid, u dont need to feel guilty as u did well, u prepared, congrats. now i have 8 others in my area, one has a ham radio, 2 have chicken operations, others have tractors, and farm equip. so start to hook up with trusted prepers and work together. for get the unprepared. i raised up a missionary org. in asia and it is one of the best and formost in evangelism and orphanages. we learned early, there are people who just will nbot believe in christ and we just let them go, and moved on. “a wise man sees dtrouble coming and prepares, a fool dies in his folley” the ants store up for the winter the grasshoppers wont and die off. no we are the ants they arent. tough love. albert olmes fake name

    Reply
    • Anonymous January 14, 2011, 3:24 pm

      For albert olmes:

      First place winner!

      For the outstanding advice of:

      “buy 10 of my plastic 55 gal. barrels @ 20 bucks each clean them out, ie soap water as they had canola oil in them, dry them out, fill them with kernal corn, drop dry ice in them, for vaccum packing , seal them up and when the stupids show up have them forage for u and u feed them corn bread.”

      550 gallons of corn equals 3000 pounds of corn equals more than 2 million calories.

      Are you going to do anything about pellegra?

      How do the covers fasten on your barrels?

      Do you ship?

      DW

      Reply
      • albert olmes January 14, 2011, 7:00 pm

        for anonymous: i just talked to an organic farmer, alfred ferris 70 yrs old out of springfield tennessee and asked him about open pollinated organic corn and how to store it. he told me the same thing i told u all. use dry ice as that is what his customers are doing, 45 cents a lb. when i get hungry, i will eat grits, corn bread, or corn flower bisquits. they can eat grass and worry about about their weight or they can opt for their rabbit and my corn meal and feel great about themselves. lol i will eat cake as he sells soft red wheat also. no i dont ship barrels, get them in u own part of country, u cant afford my shipping. :)

        Reply
      • albert olmes January 14, 2011, 7:05 pm

        …ooops i forgot, the open top barrels have rubber seals with a snap ring, and 2 bung in lid. i have more than enough customers local, dont need the bus. i was being fascious. :) albret olems.

        Reply
  • Suburban Survivalist January 14, 2011, 10:44 pm

    Answering within the conditions set is difficult since they don’t match my real situation. But in the scenario presented: The only friend that knows I store food… would be welcomed. We’ve served together and he knows where my “retreat” is and invited. Plus, I could not secure my home alone and he’s trusted.

    In reality (not the scenario posted above), he’d still be welcomed – in addition to already being trusted, he has a working car; bug out time! I’d have food, fuel, firearms, and ammo. And comms gear in a Faraday cage. My family would NOT be coming to my location. Assuming our vehicles were not functional, his arrival would be perfect.

    Reply
    • albert olmes January 15, 2011, 3:53 am

      thankyou burbs survivalist for your service to a poorly appreciative country. I served 2.5 tours in VN 69-73. vote stormin normin shwartzcoff for president, or recall ike eisenhour from the grave. a o

      Reply
  • SubmarineSailor January 16, 2011, 4:47 pm

    There are cultures in the world that have/do face this question. In Arab countries, the culture is: men are feed first, adult women, second, and children last. If all the children die you can always make more children and the culture will survive. If the adults die the children are doomed too.
    It would take the combined output of the entire world 20 years to replace all the high voltage transformers that would be destroyed in an EMP event. Even the very old power plants would not work as they have been “upgraded” from electro-mechanical relays to solid state.
    I have been trained by the government, the ONLY ALLOWED NEWS is: “Everything is OK, help is on the way.” Even if we know otherwise we are not allowed to tell the public.
    Two months food, or 4 months food = not enough. Your dead either way, take them in, company is nice to have when you are dying.

    Reply
    • albert olmes January 16, 2011, 9:37 pm

      is it ok if we grow gardens, hunt, fish, farm, like the old days. u sound fatalistic, winston churchill said, “after exhausting all other alternatives, america finally does the right things.” we need to last long enough to let the fools in govnmt. exhaust thimselves and finally do the right thing, a nearly impossible feat.

      Reply
  • tim Ralston February 7, 2011, 4:15 pm

    When it comes to emergency preparedness, most people I talk to think that nothing will ever happen to them- I constantly hear “why should I bother”. In today’s world it sounds crazy to talk about storing food. Why bother when restaurants, convenient stores and grocery stores are open 24 hours a day, 7days a week? We have grown up in the age of consumerism and take for granted there will always be food on the shelves. Well, what if there is a national emergency? Or if the unions repeat what happened in France – and stop delivery trucks in protest. What if our government keeps spending and hyper inflation occurs? Just look what happened in Boston! http://survivalist-hub.blogspot.com/. Why not be prepared just in case? It drives me NUTS when people have their heads in the sand!! But I know I am not nuts.
    As a father of 3 small children, I have always tried to protect and provide for all their immediate and future necessities. I could not come home and tell my kids there was no food on the shelves. Now, I can sleep in peace having purchased years of emergency food! I love having the peace of mind, the feeling of being empowered– that my family and I are covered with the necessary emergency food, and survival supplies for the next 20 years at TODAY’S prices for what ever comes our way.

    Reply
  • allen February 7, 2011, 7:28 pm

    to tim ralston

    u have done well, bravo, dont worry about others unless u must

    Reply