How Will People Act After TEOTWAWKI?

What can you expect from people after TSHTF?  This is an idea I’ve deliberated over and thought I’d share with you.

I think people – given a choice – tend to stick together with like minded people, which is one of the reasons you came here today to read this blog.  And that’s great.  Who wants to hang out with someone that constantly disagrees with you or challenges your every thought?

The danger with this is that without someone to challenge you it makes it harder to grow as a person or a team.crowd

Having said that here’s a list of types of people that I tend to clump together in groups.  They may or may not work together, but may pose a significant threat.  Not all the following should be considered dangerous, but keep in mind that when things get really tough family and close friends come first and everybody else comes second.

First of all, let’s categorize people after TEOTWAWKI.  And I’m assuming something big has happened for the sake of this discussion.  Social breakdown, economic collapse, that kind of thing.

Gangs

There’s been a lot of speculation written about gangs and I think this comes down to a matter of where you live.  If you’re in a city where there’s a lot of gang activity then they are likely to cause problems.  If you live in the country far removed from gang activity then you’re probably less likely to run into them.

Threat:  armed, unafraid to use violence, some gangs have a strong honor code and will fight for their perceived “family”.

Bikers fall under the gangs category.

Druggies and Alcoholics

And by these I’m talking about the people who are truly addicted to their drug of choice.  Once society breaks down there’s going to be a lot less of the types of drugs it takes to keep these people happy.  Once the drugs are gone those people looking to feed their addiction will get desperate and could become a danger to those nearby.  I don’t think they’ll go too far out of the cities and towns they live in, but it certainly wouldn’t hurt to keep an eye for people like this.

The Unprepared

The unprepared are the people who walk around saying, “The government will take care of us.”  The government might want to take care of you and may even have the best intentions when it comes to helping out after an emergency, but I’m not going to wait around with my hands in my pockets looking for a handout.

I think the people in this category will wait for a certain amount of time – let’s say three days – and then all hell will break loose when they find out that Uncle Sugar isn’t there to take care of them.  When the store shelves are empty and people are starting to get hungry is when you’ll start to see those standing around waiting for a hand out become those demanding food as their right as citizens.  Shortly thereafter will come food riots.

This is where you OPSEC will be very important.

The Prepared

This is the category you and I fall under.  I won’t be out actively looking for trouble, but if someone shows up with an attitude I won’t hesitate to ask them – nicely the first time – to keep on moving down the road.

Gun Nuts

These are the folks who think prepping simply means adding more guns and ammo to their arsenal.  If they have enough guns they’ll be able to take whatever they want from whoever has it.  Some of these folks may have military training or know enough about tactics to be a threat.  Nothing wrong with being a gun nut – I’m a bit of one myself; however, when their idea of prepping is to come take what you have through the use of superior fire power, then we have a problem.  Be wary of this group.

Government/Military

It may be that there are pockets of military units operating in your area.  If this is the case and they are running rogue the best bet is to avoid them as much as possible.  You can not win a firefight against a trained military unit.  If you think you can then you have obviously never been up against one and have them bound on you, or drop a few mortars or some artillery on your position.  Do NOT engage the military.

 Ordinary People

Ordinary people make up most of what I consider “civilization.”  They come in all shapes and sizes and can and will do unpredictable things during times of crisis.  One thing we’ve never endured here in the United States for many years is any kind of prolonged event that affected the entire country as a whole.  There have been many smaller regional disasters such as storms, earthquakes, wild fires, etc, but nothing that has taxed the entire country.

This is when funky things will start to happen.

As I drove through town this morning I watched those around me and here’s what I saw:

elderly people limping along, young people walking to and from work, a homeless woman taking cans out of a trash can, people living off the state sitting outside their government paid for apartments, construction workers tearing up a street, delivery people bringing goods to local markets, shop owners selling ice creams, truck drivers, cab drivers, and so on…

All of these people will have their own reaction to an event like an economic collapse:  confusion, fear, anger, denial, much the same as having a loved one die.  If all the money in your pocket and your bank accounts was suddenly worthless how would you feel?  Close your eyes and imagine that you only have a quarter of tank of fuel and suddenly gas is so expensive you can’t afford it or the lines are so long there’s now way you’ll be able to get any.  Food is gone off the super market shelves and the power is out or flickering.

How would you feel?

Now imagine millions of people all feeling the exact same thing only they’re not as prepared as you are.  Their idea of stocking up is two cans of soup and a container of oatmeal and now they might not be able to eat if they don’t get some food right away.  What do they do?  Beg?  Steal?  Threaten? Negotiate?  Riot?  I suppose it depends on the situation, but like I said there hasn’t been a challenge like this to the United States in a long long time.

So there you have it.  Some thoughts and ideas on people and how they’ll act after TSHTF.

What do you think?  I know you have some thoughts on the subject.

Questions?  Comments?

Sound off below!

-Jarhead Survivor

 

  • Lou June 7, 2013, 2:04 am

    This is a topic that should be explored in great depth!
    I tend to agree with much of what you say in the above article.
    There is however, such a thing as “The American Character”, which is distinct and individual to us. I was just reading the account of an ex-nazi soldger, who spoke about how differant the Americans he encountered were, from his being taken prisoner, to comming to the U.S., to enlisting and serving in the U.S. Army.
    Americans are problem solvers, by nature. We still, inspite of everything, see outselves as the Good Guys. Somehow we still beleave in fairness. Americans want to pitch in and help. Though there will be plenty of bad acters, as a general rule, Americans can be expected to behave like Americans. This is a very good thing, and should not be underestimated.
    One key point that is never mentioned are the “Golden Hours”.
    There will be hours to days before most realize the seriousnes of a general SHTF event, during which the informed can take actions to improve their chances. Time to gather supplies, and to G.O.D.
    One thing for sure, it won’t go of from Normal World to Road Warrior World in an instant. It’s silly to think it will. It’ll take weeks, and months for things to generally get that bad. Perhaps a day or two in the worst parts of Metro Centers, but longer everywhere else.

    Reply
    • MaddMac June 7, 2013, 7:47 am

      As much as I would like to believe in the possitive of the American Spirit, I can not fully agree with you, Lou. The horror stories that came out of New Orleans just days after hurricane Katrina is an example of human desperation at its worst and how quickly panic and lawlessness can take affect. My biggest fear after a SHTF event isn’t food, water or shelter. It will be the lawless thugs, ganging up in desperation knowing there is no lawman to enforce the law of the land.

      Reply
      • savvycowboy June 8, 2013, 2:13 pm

        MaddMac you are dead on target. Our country is soft and like Jarhead Survivor pointed out, we have not had a national “catastrophe” for over 70 years. My parents/grandparents lived in a time when not everybody had electricity, a car was a luxury and people grew their own groceries; gardens were in EVERY back yard. Think about what it would be like with no Internet, no commo, nothing but your own resilience, survival skills (TTPs – Tactics, Techniques and Procedures), and preparation. You can never “over prepare” even if nothing happens or a catastrophe hits just your area, if you’re not ready, you’re dead. Read & memorize the book Contact!: A Tactical Manual for Post Collapse Survival ($21 at Amazon). Even if you’re like me and spent 22 years in the Army, you can still learn/improve your skill sets (TTPs) on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. It’s up to you – do nothing, do everything to prepare and you’ll reap the reward(s) of your efforts.

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      • Hotchick June 20, 2013, 5:23 am

        Look who the citizens of New Orleans were. If you live close to that crowd, you can expect animalistic behavior. Look at their behavior when they knew the rest of the country was unaffected and help was coming. After Katrina or Sandy, you could’ve walked clear of the affected area within 2 or 3 days.
        I’d worry most about the gang that calls itself “the thin blue line”.

        Reply
    • Francesca Steele June 11, 2013, 10:56 pm

      Lou, I like to believe there is something left of the American Spirit, which is being eroded away every day. However, as long as sales of Pick up trucks are still strong, we have something to believe in. I suggest, if you haven’t already, reading two accounts of prisoners of the Soviet Gulag. One by a Russian: Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, and one by an American: Alexander Dolgun. These true accounts surely describe the difference of how two cultures responded to their traumatic imprisonment. In summery, the Russian fatalistically accepted his fate, the American never did, and always looked for escape. Cheers

      Reply
  • Kal June 7, 2013, 7:48 am

    There is another thought I haven’t read much about. In small town rural settings often the government has built low income housing. In the area I live in this housing is occupied mostly by people on some sort of government support. Crime rates in these areas is much higher than surrounding areas, and is mostly contained within the housing area. Note: (i am speaking of 1 or 2 family housing; HUD housing) Desperation will hit these areas faster than others area because the are living hand to mouth at the moment. In my opinion they will out of desperation begin to loot and rob in an attempt to feed there families very quickly. They will look at remote secluded 1 family homes as opportunities. Homes like mine which are remote setting on 1 or more acres, surrounded by trees etc, will become targets. People like myself who are preparing must harden their homes, plan defensive moves, train their family members, and most of all don’t go off half cocked. Thanks for your narrative, i agree, this comment is based on my observations of my local area.

    Reply
    • MaddMac June 7, 2013, 1:45 pm

      I agree completely with you. We live in a rural area outside a small town. Its unbelievable how much crime is in the area because of addicts. I fear how much worse it will be when they realize there is no law and they feel they can get away with anything

      Reply
    • Fab 290 June 7, 2013, 2:22 pm

      Kal,
      You are correct in your concern as I am but our neighborhood has taken this into consideration. There are only 8 houses on our street it is a dirt road off a dirt road and will be blocked off…if you do not live there you will not be allowed in and we will have roving patrols of two around the clock my home is very well placed logistically on a hill that is able to see the end of the road a well, this will allow us to neutralize any threat before it becomes a threat….We have a ZERO tolerance policy…

      Reply
      • MaddMac June 10, 2013, 10:41 am

        Kal, you are fortunate survivor. I can only dream that our road could be half as secured as yours. But, we are still working on it

        Reply
      • Hotchick June 20, 2013, 5:35 am

        Lots of neighborhoods will throw up ad hock roadblocks, form mutual aid alliances (even if they’re not besties), and the like to “encourage” outsiders to stay out. Remember that like water, a riot follows the path of least resistance.

        Reply
    • Hotchick June 20, 2013, 5:30 am

      The “affordable housing” thing is designed to scatter this human debris so their ‘hoods don’t look so bad. It drags the whole area down, just not as visibly. These animals won’t loot & pillage out of desperation, they’ll use any excuse as an opportunity to do so.

      Reply
  • Ray June 7, 2013, 8:01 am

    It depends on the level of the break down, If we have another “great depression ” then the poor and starving may become a minor threat. Government is a major threat NOW. They state the “right” to do as they damn please , “We” have no “rights” AT ALL we are not willing to kill for. If it go’s all “Book of Eli” then all bets are off -Kill or be killed, and The devil take the hindmost. Civil War? Then it’s the big dog’s that rule and the little one’s get eaten. –Its turning really ugly in the good old USA , I don’t believe we have long to wait to learn how bad it will get.

    Reply
    • Ray June 7, 2013, 11:32 am

      Hey guy’s I know this is off topic I just went to the local sporting goods store and was told I had to SIGN for camping gear – Name SSN DOB photo ID -No ammo involved just freeze dryed food and stove fuel + fuel bottle. I was told by the dweeb at the check out that this is an order from DHS, and that noncompliance was not an option. I told HIM to take his stuff and his store and STICK it.

      Reply
      • MaddMac June 7, 2013, 1:43 pm

        Ray, Are you kidding? Crap, its near time to become invisible

        Reply
      • Jonathan June 7, 2013, 4:01 pm

        What was the Name of the store? Is it one of the Big Chains like Dicks’, Bass Pro, Cabelas, Gander Mountain?

        Reply
        • Ray June 7, 2013, 6:29 pm

          Dicks ,and they can kiss my A** good-by forever. They have a real reputation around here for Bull Sh** and making up “rules” that don’t exist outside there store. It’s My first and last visit to Dicks. A year or so ago a friend told me that they tried to make him sign for ammo and told him that it was a state law(It’s not). I thought he was BS-ing me then ,I believe every word now.

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          • Jen June 8, 2013, 9:01 am

            Dick’s is the worse. Their employees have the worst customer service training, they lie constantly and make-up “rules”. Unless I can not find it elsewhere I will not shop at one. I will spend more money to get what I need without the hassle. And complaining to corporate doesn’t help.

  • The Road Warrior June 7, 2013, 8:09 am

    I remember, just a few weeks ago, being in Wal-Mart when the ammo truck came in. People were lined up like crazy, and even with sales cut back to two boxes per person, ammo quickly sold out. The people were in the back of the line were PISSED; apparently they’d been there quite some time waiting, and they were glaring and swearing at people who.bought the ammo they wanted, and things came close to getting ugly. I realized I’d just caught a small glimpse of what things could look like in the beginning after TSHTF. Now imagine people’ debit cards not working, nobody able.to get booze, smokes, even aspirin or decongestants when they are sick. Things will escalate quickly, especially with people who are used to unconditional handouts they didn’t work for.

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    • Ray June 7, 2013, 11:37 am

      TRW: Wal-Mart seems to be the only store in Ky. that Dose not have ammo. All the national chain G&A’s have re-stocked(at a steep mark up). During the last 4 ammo panics Wal-Mart was the last to restock. I think they do it to stretch out the panic and keep prices up longer.

      Reply
    • Michael June 8, 2013, 10:04 pm

      A few years back the Puget Sound region got hit by one of its rare winter snow and ice storms and everything in my area was closed down for 4-5 days.

      Towards the end of the storm, I hiked up to a Costco that’s a couple miles from my house. Turns out the store had been closed the down for a few days because of power outages and inability to resupply it and had just re-opend. In the dairy section the milk and eggs were going straight from pallets that store employees hauled in to shoppers carts.

      Everyone worked together and kept new people informed of what was going on, but it was tense. I remember thinking that the situation was “one asshole away from becoming a riot.” I also got the idea, loud and clear, that the last place you want to be after stores have been closed for 4 days is in a store when it first opens.

      Reply
    • steve suffering in nj June 10, 2013, 10:12 pm

      Road Warrior you nailed it. We got hit pretty hard during sandy. There were multiple fist fights over fuel lines. We went back to 70s style gas rationing off license plate numbers. We had local PD at the few stations that had fuel. State Police at lowes and home depot. They would only let a few customers in at a time. We were with out power for 14 days. There were rumors of gangs roaming around from a specific unnamed city. I live in a very rural part of NJ, believe it or not it does exist. We had “observers” at the one road in and out every night after day 6. That’s when the alleged probing started. I didn’t take the storm too seriously. My wife went tot he store which was running off a generator at the time. I had her buy everything she could that would keep. Were fairly well stocked, but take the opportunity when it presents itself. Bottom line, best place to be is hunkered down and well stocked. Going out among the unprepared panicking masses is a bad place to be. After the experience I keep even more food on hand. I started keeping 30 gallons of fuel on hand. Don’t be the guy out looking for supplies after something bad happens.

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    • Hotchick June 20, 2013, 5:43 am

      The banksters have done a bang-up job of getting people hooked on the convience of a debit card, and not just the SNAP gang. A bank run can be controlled with the click of a mouse. Look up pictures of people in Cyprus (and other places) standing in line a block long hoping the ATM doesn’t run out of cash before they get to it.

      Reply
  • jimmy June 7, 2013, 8:55 am

    another group to maybe consider are the local govt officials, wealthy people, and police. Rich and powerful people have always been with us, and still will be after an event. For example the mayor and chief of police or local sheriff. The police have organization, weapons, training, and communication. They’re not going away. We’ve seen what they do during localized emergencies such as Boston and New Orleans. Any “rights” you think you have as a citizen are immediately discarded and the authorities will do whatever they want and take what they want in the name of the “common good”. The powers that be (TPTB) did this even though cameras were rolling.

    Now imagine an emergency on a national or global scale. No cameras, no internet, nobody to report incidents to. TPTB will do whatever they please.

    Reply
  • GoneWithTheWind June 7, 2013, 9:46 am

    You are so right about having someone who finds the problems and challenges ideas. I used to work with someone who was a pain in the rear, always finding fault with everything, prolonging meetings, endless arguements, shooting down great ideas, etc. But his value was that in his nitpicking he would often expose the flaws in any plan and did it early enough that it could be fixed before it caused problems.

    Reply
    • Pineslayer June 7, 2013, 10:34 pm

      GWTW, umm, well, ummm, ironic. I am laughing too hard right now to type much. We all need a nitpicker in the group to keep things real.

      Reply
  • Charles,,,, June 7, 2013, 10:38 am

    Good stuff to think, hear, and kick around now beforehand. The added psychological factor’s will be tremendous, the worry of family thats afar off, the lack of prep’s you will wish you had or done. Skeary to think the group you plan to hunker down with is NOW it, toilet habit’s., downtime, personal time is all gone, you and yours become a village requiring all to behave and work to the good, yeah, good luck with that when the electronic’s go down, comm is down, internet, talk show’s are off the air, wow, so much to think about and prepare for internally, does your group have a good listener, not a problem solver, someone who can calm the other down with word’s and a listening air, awesome blog sir, my mind is realing with thoughts, time to have a family meeting this weekend… thanks alot, lol !!!!

    Reply
  • SD3 June 7, 2013, 10:40 am

    I suspect the “gang” factor will be not be simply a function of ‘where you live’, but a much more pervasive.

    We may call them ‘gangs’ or ‘clans’, ‘families’ or ‘herds’, anything you like. Virtually everyone is going to align themselves with some demographic, religious, racial, ethnic or whatever.

    And we’re all going to have to ‘deal’ with them, wether we like it or not. Pragmatism will carry the day.

    Reply
    • Jarhead Survivor June 8, 2013, 1:05 pm

      Very well put, SD3! Thanks for putting into words what I was casting around for.

      Reply
  • Randy June 7, 2013, 11:13 am

    One more group to consider is your local church or churches depending on how well they work together.
    Some are very prepper minded and some are very sheeple-ish.
    But they shouldn’t be written off altogether…

    Reply
  • SaskPrepper June 7, 2013, 11:48 am

    Long time reader, first time commenting. I’d like to say thanks for all the great information on here. We’re relatively new to prepping, but are enthusiastic about it. I’m a stay at home dad on disability from a bad car accident, so cash is sometimes quite short. That in mind, I find that networking locally is a perfect way to access supplies or hardware quite cheaply. I airbrush and paint (was a tattoo artist pre-accident) so I offer my painting and artistic skills in trade for items that we need. We live in a small town in Saskatchewan Canada, so its akin to living in the Twilight Zone. A mass amount of farms, old homesteads etc abound, so again its a great place to scrounge different items. I’d like to set our house up for wood heat, and solar electricity for post-SHTF. Any suggestions that way? OPSEC is important, so very obvious displays of self sufficiency are not desired…

    Reply
    • gardener June 10, 2013, 9:49 pm

      My first thought – if you are far enough north in Saskatchewan to have numerous trees, you might be too far north to get much solar electricity in winter. Great idea for the very long summer days though.

      Reply
  • SaskPrepper June 7, 2013, 11:54 am

    Oh, for any Canucks on here that are looking for Mylar bags, and tons of other seemingly hard to find items, try this page. http://www.bridensolutions.ca/shop They are members of the LDS church, but when SHTF we all need what we need.

    Reply
  • Kimberly June 7, 2013, 12:41 pm

    What about those of us who actually live on a military installation? I have a bad feeling that we would be caught in a predicament if SHTF. We’re living on a secure base that can be closed down, but I feel like most of us would just assume that we would be taken care of, but I don’t buy that for a second. At least not long term. There is also a chance that we could be “recruited” to help fight if we needed to or that we couldn’t leave. Another thing that comes into play is the service member, who is bound to help if called into action, leaving the families to fend for themselves. Where do we fall on that list?

    Reply
    • SD3 June 7, 2013, 1:01 pm

      “There is also a chance that we could be “recruited” to help fight if we needed to or that we couldn’t leave.”

      True, but that’s likely to be the new reality, regardless of location. Your later point, about being separated from the service member, is significantly more problematic. In a true national emergency, they’ll be sent somewher for the duration. At a minium, I’d recommend establishing a personal secret ‘code’ (if you will), so you can actually communicate what’s happening & how you intend to eventually find one another agin. Bottom line: you should prepare now to fend for yourselves.

      Reply
      • Kimberly June 7, 2013, 1:15 pm

        Brilliant about a code. I’ll have to write that down somewhere to remember. We plan on getting ourselves ready…we’re biding our time until we get off of the rock (Hawaii) and to our next duty station (All weight counts against us, we hve three kids and a dog and we only have so much weight the military will ship) before we start seriously getting ready. Having a plan in place if (or when, rather) my husband gets separated from us is a great idea. Thank you for that.

        Reply
        • Ray June 7, 2013, 1:35 pm

          Kimberly: When Stalin started his “5 year plan”(20-40 million dead) One of the first things he did was “lock down” the families of the Russian army and Navy. Then the solders would have no choice but to follow orders to murder , or deport anyone to the gulag. If the solders disobeyed the NKVD would shoot mom and the kiddies in front of the troops. Obamas hero Chairman Mow did the same thing. This act is one of the surest ways for a tyrant to force troops to obey , something to think about if you live on post. P.S. The other name for “cannot leave when you want to” is Hostage.

          Reply
        • MaddMac June 7, 2013, 1:53 pm

          Back (about a hundred years ago) when I was in the service and training to defend the free world from the USSR, we made communication codes like, “send Aunt Fannie a birthday card before I forget”. Knowing I didn’t have a Aunt Fanny would key my wife to realize the statement meant something else. You have to make sure its something that only you and your spouse will understand and it can’t sound like a code.

          Reply
    • JAS June 7, 2013, 3:28 pm

      Don’t count on the military helping you as a family. You would more likely be escorted off base as a security risk to make room for all of the soldiers that would be called back on base. As a drill sargent once told me, “if the Air Force had wanted you to have a family, they would have issued you one”. Back in October 1973 when the Yom Kippur war broke out, being afraid that it may draw America and Russia into it, America forces were put on alert and sent out from their home bases to staging areas. Our families were not told what was going on, or where we were for over two weeks.

      Reply
  • Charles,,,, June 7, 2013, 12:56 pm

    Ms. Kimberly, those are hrrid thoughts for military family’s, and then those deployed overseas, yikes, phew what does one do….
    I had an added thought on thing’s that happen here in training family member’s, they often shoot each other, accidently of course, walking or popping up in front of the line of fire, ziging when they are told to zag, so added paranoia, imagination, and plain ole skeared sheetless and, well yall can imagine the and’s…. man just when I think I’m catching up yall throw some other contigent into the mix and I have to retreat-regroup and find out what to do ohhh what to do, but it’s a very good reality check, we all have to do something, plan for it, practice it and practice it somemore after the bugz start showing up… thank’s bunche’s…. respectfully !!!!

    Reply
    • Kimberly June 7, 2013, 1:18 pm

      Lucky for me, my husband won’t be deploying any time soon, but there’s a chance it could happen before SHTF, so a plan will be put into place if that does occur as well.

      Reply
  • Jackie Davis June 7, 2013, 12:59 pm

    I’m not new to prepping but learn something new as each day goes by. I also believe getting out of a city or large town for my family is our best bet and I also believe that personality types in any group plays a big role. There are three types of personalities and you can use them for ya or against ya. Type #1 personalities are those who are people who do things on a whim (don’t think twice about things), are outgoing and mostly fall in the “in the know” (rich) category. Type #2 personalities are those who are sensitive…..the care takers, those who always are worried…..the cryer’s, the poor-me’s people. Type #3 personalities are those who work with facts…..they don’t want to be bothered with nonsense with out proof…..they are the one’s who look at a clock and wonders what makes it tick…while ..others look to see what time it is. They are the problem solvers, see outside the box, planners, organizers, coordinators and are best prepared. Now, with knowing this, it helps me to see in the first 5 minutes with someone I just met where they fall……I may not make it (type 2) when shtf, but I am prepared (type 3) and willing to do what I have too giving it my best shot (type 1)…..all in all we do need to be aware of the different groups mentioned above but I also know that the elderly, drug/alcohol users, people on government assistance and the uppies and peace people (hippies) will die first….scary but true!

    Reply
    • Jason June 9, 2013, 5:27 pm

      Off topic but you have a nice looking blog – clean, simple & nice colors. I read your bio & it reminded me of my childhood of the more simple things & pleasures of life. Today it seems that everybody is in a hurry to get nowhere!

      Reply
      • Hotchick June 20, 2013, 5:55 am

        Look around you for things that can be pressed into service as roadblocks. The boat that never seems to leave the yard, concrete highway barricades (may be hard to get in place, but the trailer under that boat would help) trees that can be dropped across the neighborhood entry road, etc.

        Reply
  • offgridok June 7, 2013, 1:14 pm

    Living in the woods as I do the group that concerns me the most is all these people that have purchased or put together a “bug out bag” and decided their best bet is to “bug out” to the nearest patch of woods or relatively underpopulated area. Most of these people are well armed and have absolutely no experience living under primitive conditions. How are they likely to react when told that “no, I didn’t grow that garden for you, and no, you cannot kill and eat my animals, and no, I will not share my house with your family”? And how does one turn away the children the fools brought with them? It could get really nasty in a hurry.

    Reply
    • Hotchick June 20, 2013, 6:00 am

      Yea, the “bug out” gang will present problems when their meager supplies run out. It would be hard to turn away children, but you have to bear in mind that kids’ll be used as a ruse to get you to drop your guard, and anything you give to some kid, you have to first take from your own kids.

      Reply
  • Kevin June 7, 2013, 1:59 pm

    Hi Folks, with the chance of the internet being shut down I think it is imperative that we have a phone list of folks here to communicate with. My fear is that if the Government blockes the internet we won’t know what’s going on in other areas

    Reply
    • Ray June 7, 2013, 2:10 pm

      God Kevin I hope not, The way the NSA/FBI/DHS has started claiming the citizens have no rights they are bound to respect. All it will take is an overt act by this government to start a civil war. I truly fear that even a “black swan” event could trigger this.

      Reply
      • Michael June 7, 2013, 3:55 pm

        Carrier Pigeons! Seriously.

        My sister and I live 2 miles from each other and see each other a couple times a week. It would be easy enough to transport a couple of pigeons via bicycles back and forth from each others houses and send the occasional note to each other.

        Reply
        • Jason June 9, 2013, 2:53 pm

          Then when worse comes to worse – eat the pigeons …. hopefully before someone else does :-)

          Reply
          • Ray June 9, 2013, 8:45 pm

            A little butter ,a little tarragon A pinch of sea salt and white pepper- yum

          • Jason June 9, 2013, 11:34 pm

            Ray, that made me laugh out loud!

          • irishdutchuncle June 10, 2013, 9:37 pm

            that’s what they were brought here for in the first place.

            pigeon dung may also be useful in making blackpowder…

  • Christopher de Vidal June 7, 2013, 2:27 pm

    Another group to consider are those who are on anti-anxiety medications, antidepressants, antipsychotics and drugs similar to this. If the medicine stops flowing these people — who apparently make up about one quarter of the population — will become very unpredictable.

    But they likely won’t live long enough to pass on their brain problems to their children, so following generations may have fewer issues like these. I imagine a truly global TEOTWAWKI will be like Chlorox in the gene pool.

    Reply
    • Michael June 7, 2013, 4:02 pm

      “But they likely won’t live long enough to pass on their brain problems to their children, so following generations may have fewer issues like these.”

      Sorry, but biology of mental illness doesn’t work like that. Think about it, disorders like depression have been around from the start, but the drugs to treat them have only been around for about 40 years.

      The stresses of the TEOTWAWKI event would probably create more mental illness than lack of meds would cause the death of.

      Reply
      • Christopher de Vidal June 8, 2013, 1:41 am

        Well don’t let my lack of understanding of the genetic traits of depression and anxiety keep you from preparing for these people :-)

        Reply
        • Michael June 8, 2013, 10:06 pm

          The net effect will be more crazy, not less. And it very much is something preppers need to think about.

          Reply
      • Hotchick June 20, 2013, 6:10 am

        Bullshit. ‘murikns are the most medicated people in the world. Depression is a made up disorder. ‘murikns dream up new mental illnesses to excuse their inadequacies. How did mankind get by before SSRIs were invented? Psychiatry is a mental disorder.

        The AMA has just declared obesity a disease. That should help lower the cost of medical insurance, just like calling alcohol and drug addictions diseases did.

        Reply
    • Jason June 9, 2013, 3:06 pm

      Actually, I think the opposite will happen. When the stimuli of the Internet, TV & the rest is shut down, anxiety will eventually return to normal levels. I think what makes these people unpredictable is the drugs & the residual effects.

      Americans use psychotropic drugs way, way, way to much in order to avoid life or as a cure for the most minor events. A mere 50 years ago we probably had less than 10% of the people on prescription drugs.

      The only thing that has changed is the access to information – ALL information – has exploded & way too much for any normal human to assimilate & that bombardment continues which, exacerbates stress & anxiety.

      Reply
    • Mary June 9, 2013, 4:12 pm

      More likely, people who pop off mean statements to mentally ill people without thinking during TEOTWAWKI will get killed off first. Think about it.

      Reply
      • Jason June 9, 2013, 5:19 pm

        It doesn’t happen all that much in the world right now so I don’t think it will increase due to a catastrophe. I think the entire complexion of how people operate will be vastly different anyway. In today’s day & age people generally exercise bravado in the blogosphere & not in real life.

        Reply
        • Michael June 9, 2013, 6:46 pm

          “A mere 50 years ago we probably had less than 10% of the people on prescription drugs.”

          50 years ago we didn’t have drugs to put them on or a very good understanding of what was going wrong with people.

          Yes, we over prescribe medications, no doubt about it. But, that still leaves a whole lot of people that needed the help, some short term, some long term.

          Stress, anxiety, lack of sleep, untreated UTI’s and sinus infections, all cause people to go a bit bonkers and will all go up post event. Maybe in the long term the stress, anxiety, and mental illness will be a little lower, but that would be a long time post event.

          Reply
          • Michael June 9, 2013, 6:48 pm

            Mary,
            Considering the shootings that we already have being done by the mentally ill, you’ve got a good point.

          • Jason June 9, 2013, 9:29 pm

            Michael,

            Pardon my language but that’s pure horse shit, you have no clue. If what you are saying is even remotely true & people were wondering around as unstable & undiagnosed as you believe, then why did we not have more over the top violence & mass shootings 50 years ago?

            Charles Manson did the most heinous murder ever & today, he’d barely make the local news with that same event. Look around – you have cyber bullies everywhere saying – anything & everything with ZERO accountability.

            Today, more than 2/3 of the 1st-5th grade kids are on Ritalin. 50 years ago people just thought they needed to be trained to focus better & parents did it by & in large. Today, most parents are self-consumed or too damn lazy.

            What are the two main things that has changed culturally in the US over the past 30 years? The acceptance of & the glorification of extreme violence in movies & gaming AND the easy accessibility to any kind of information by anybody with enough savvy to operate a computer & get a whole array of uncensored information (most 7 year olds can surf the net fairly easily). I am 58 & have witnessed this transformation.

            I don’t care for Michael Moore but he made a pretty profound discovery regarding the effect of pharmaceuticals in making his movie – Bowling for Columbine, which he shares in this 2 minute clip:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqylvZL845w

      • Christopher de Vidal June 9, 2013, 7:31 pm

        Very true. Good thing I didn’t pop off any mean statements, and any assumptions otherwise are reading meanness that isn’t there :-)

        Reply
        • Michael June 9, 2013, 8:00 pm

          I didn’t see any thing mean in what you wrote. I’m just a little on the pedantic side of things.

          Reply
        • Mary June 9, 2013, 8:39 pm

          I think saying that if mentally people all die it would be like Clorox in the gene pool is a very mean statement to make. You have your opinion, I have mine. But as for myself I will keep any opinions I have to myself when I am around someone with a prescription that ran out and a gun.

          Reply
          • Michael June 9, 2013, 11:44 pm

            Jason,

            I worked in mental health for a number of years, it is something I know a little about.

            When I don’t know something I say I don’t know it.

            I was also treated, successfully, for depression at one point in my life. Mirtazapine and Wellbutrin not only saved my life they, along with a couple years worth of therapy, helped me build a better life and not slip back into old habits and ways of thinking. I stayed on Wellbutrin for about a year and Mirtazapine for about an additional year.

            I already agreed with you that drugs are way over prescribed, so I don’t know why you’re yelling at me about that.

            This IS a speculative conversation on the internet, of course there’s some speculation going on.

            Please see this link: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1

            Look at the violent crime rate. It’s going down.

            Also look here: http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/05/17/rick_nevin_murder_statistics_safest_year_ever.html

            Violent crime is going down, not up.

            Things change over time, always have and always will. One of the changes we’re seeing is the rise of the mass shooting. But, the overall violent crime rate is going down.

          • Christopher de Vidal June 10, 2013, 9:05 am

            Sorry it came across that way, but meanness wasn’t there :-)

          • Jason June 10, 2013, 5:36 pm

            Not yelling, just being emphatic however, you did help make my point regarding the change in our culture. I know the FBI crime statistics very well & know crime has been on the decline since 1993 however, look at the types of murders being committed in the past 30 years – Timothy McVeigh, BTK Killer, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, OJ Simpson, all 6 of the mass murders recently, police brutality skyrocketing & much, much more. This is the difference I am speaking about & we are more numb to these events today.

            When I was 17 the movie the Wild Bunch came out & created a huge stir culturally. The rating board wanted to rate it X because of the over the top violence & there was a huge media stink about it. They finally rated it R & there was no way in hell anybody under the age of 18 was getting in – no way, I tried.

            Today that movie is shown – uncut, on regular daytime TV & you can go to most any theater & you will see under aged kids watching movie like the ultra violent Inglorious Basterds or Pulp Fiction. This is a fact & by comparison to 50 years ago, outrage would be the minimal response not only to these movies but towards parents for allowing a child to watch it.

            It is this influence that has contributed to the decline of morality.

            I have a theory about pharmaceuticals companies – first they created a problem, then created the cure. It is a multi billion dollar business.

          • Spud June 10, 2013, 7:31 pm

            I most certainly agree with you Jason on the violent movies and video games causing much of the change .
            Especially when we are forcing the the equivalent of meth upon our children (Read Ritalin)
            Actually I think we’d be better off having them smoke a joint ! Don’t hear of violence coming from pot smokers do you !

          • figment June 14, 2013, 6:39 am

            “”I have a theory about pharmaceuticals companies – first they created a problem, then created the cure. It is a multi billion dollar business.”"

            Read the book “Black Hat, White Coat”. it’s written by a doctor about the pharmaceutical and medical fields and how commercialization has created a giant pool of diseases that must be treated by chemicals. Also gives in great detail the testing of said chemicals and the unethicalness of allowing those creating the drugs to regulate them.

            (Think Bayer funding the experiments on pesticide safety and bee-killing, of course our products don’t kill bees, that would kill our 3B$ yearly income. obvious conflict of interest )

  • Michael June 7, 2013, 2:41 pm

    As far as addicts and gangs go, meth, the people who use it, and the people who make it, (criminal gangs of one form or another) are a bigger problem in rural areas than they are in cities. Being rural doesn’t protect you that much from these folks. On the other hand, it does mean that there will be fewer people around to see them or help you out when those folks come around. Something to think about, anyway.

    I’m kinda worried about the guy that charges around my neighborhood in a giant pickup truck, with a giant American flag propped up in the bed, and “Liberal Hunting Permit” stickers in his rear window. What’s going to happen when he and his buddies get together after TEOTWAWKI and decide clean up the neighborhood and make it safe for “Real Americans?”

    I’m also concerned about the religious fanatics that thought my support for gay marriage in Washington State in the last election was going to bring The Wrath Of God down upon us. What if they decide that I, and people like me, caused TEOTWAWKI?

    Reply
    • Kimberly June 7, 2013, 3:01 pm

      Michael, you bring up a good point. Though, I think the religious fanatics will do more harm to themselves than anyone else, honestly, especially in the beginning. (That’s just my personal theory.)

      There are certainly pros and cons to living anywhere: cities, suburbs and rural areas. Each come with their own variety of things that could possibly go wrong (your liberal hunting “friends” are a good example) and we can only do our best to have plans in place for all scenarios.

      Reply
      • Michael June 7, 2013, 3:13 pm

        Thanks.

        I think all areas have their positives and negatives, the trick is to think about what those are and pick the place that fits you best. Me, I’ll stick with larger towns and smallish cities.

        Reply
        • Jason June 9, 2013, 9:44 pm

          Michael & Kimberly,

          How people act now is how they will act in the future – pure & simple. You worry about pick-up trucks that run around with stupid bumper stickers as if they are going to shoot someone in the future? Never, will that happen. To make that transition is literally the difference between night & day.

          You name any group anywhere & they will basically remain the same because of whatever their moral compass is. People do not change, they just become more like themselves.

          Speculation & unsubstantiated worry is the real killer.

          Reply
          • Michael June 10, 2013, 12:06 am

            “You worry about pick-up trucks that run around with stupid bumper stickers as if they are going to shoot someone in the future?”

            Yes, I worry about him, but not very much.

            I post that mostly because I thought it would be good to post something from my left of center perspective on what tends to be a right of center blog and comment thread.

    • teabag June 15, 2013, 6:21 am

      too late–they decided that years ago! in fact, they decided that anyone who isn’t exactly like them is fair game for their persecution (from bullying to outright murder). fortunately, when the excrement makes contact with the air-circulation device, most of their testosterone-poisoned brains will implode and they will kill each other off.

      Reply
  • JAS June 7, 2013, 3:10 pm

    We Americans are a fickle bunch at best. There is no telling how any one scenario will cause us to behave. Just think about some of our past actions. When Katrina hit, for the most part people realized that this was a temporary problem and helped each other. Yes there were some bad actions, but they were outwieghed by the good IMO. The same with the tornados and floods we saw in the last 12 months. But, we also have cases of parents fighting and killing each other over a toy for their child. Anyone remember the fights over the cabage patch kids. Rediculous, but it happened. What will people do when they realize that this is not just a temporary incovenience and their kids are not going to eat today. They will kill you over a slice of bread at that point. IMHO, if things get really bad and don’t look like there is any end in sight, you will not be able to trust anyone.

    Reply
  • T.R. June 7, 2013, 5:19 pm

    Read Selco’s blog about how things were in Bosnia ……..that will tell you much .

    Reply
    • Jarhead Survivor June 8, 2013, 1:13 pm

      That’s a good blog. I’ve read some of his stuff before.

      Reply
      • T.R. June 8, 2013, 8:01 pm

        It’s good , but man , I hope that doesn’t happen here!!!! with our population ………it will be beyond ugly .

        Reply
  • Mary June 7, 2013, 5:31 pm

    I’ve noticed this subject comes up a lot, and it always scares me. I remember in the 90′s when I lived in Chicago I saw the cold hard look in the eyes of recent immigrants who came there from the Serbian War. How would I have done in their situation? How will I stay a human being when it’s dog eat dog? I can only hope that my faith in a higher being will keep me whole. I’ve come to the conclusion that I need to work on strenthening that faith (and my self defense skills) so I will be ready .

    Reply
    • Ray June 8, 2013, 11:28 am

      Mary if civilization breaks down, you get hard or dead. Faith in God is good and all ,BUT it won’t stop bullets. It may save your sole. It will NOT stop evil from murdering you and your children. Only you can do that.

      Reply
      • Mary June 9, 2013, 4:00 pm

        I get what you are saying and I don’t disagree at all. I have no problem with the concept of self defense, trust me! I was just trying to say that without spiritual strenth there is the potential in all of us to become just plain evil. Spirituality is a different kind of strength that you can’t get from weapons. And nobody can ever take it away from you. I’m trying to say that our own version of spirituality (whatever that is), should be a part of our preparation along with food, weapons, first aid class, all the other things we think we might need for difficult times. What is the point of surviving if we can’t live with ourselves because we were weak and lost our moral compass?

        Reply
        • Ray June 9, 2013, 8:40 pm

          How very true! For me the trick has all ways been to let the “Better Angels of my nature” win out over military training and my natural inclination to beat the living sh** out of them that really need it.( Tell the truth ,most of us have met some one in our lifetimes that if shot would have made the world a better place)

          Reply
      • Jason June 9, 2013, 9:48 pm

        Ray you must be from the old school that says: “Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition”. I was chuckling pretty hard when I wrote this.

        Reply
  • Pineslayer June 7, 2013, 10:46 pm

    I would love to believe that Americans would pull together and come out stronger, I will try. Society has changed, people have changed. Everyone here would pull together and dig those holes, but I would say 80% of this country doesn’t know how to dig a hole. In a WCS it will be ugly, that is why we prep. I think I read all of Selco’s blog. They still had people trying to help them at times, Americans, and it was barbaric. In a WCS the real dilemma will be how to dispose of all the bodies, that might make a good and morbid post. I will close the gate, help my good friends when I can, and hope for the best.

    Reply
    • T.R. June 8, 2013, 11:21 am

      You also have to remember this society has successfully been brainwashed by the socialist left into beleving they are ENTITLED to this or that . As long as those checks and freebies keep coming in , they will do whatever the government tells them to do . When that all stops , it will be like an autistic child having a tantrum . We will NOT pull together to any group large enough not to be exterminated by the powers that be . Only if we have a leader , a very charismatic leader to rally behind , will there be a chance , even then , that leader , like Hitler and Lenin , will need a scapegoat for the newly cut off , self entitled masses , to direct their anger at . Most likely the government will be that scapegoat ………that would be a good thing .

      Reply
      • figment June 14, 2013, 6:41 am

        bingo.

        they have worked feverishly for the past 60 yrs (of welfare society) to divide us.

        as well as the educational system. “we are all special snowflakes, i DESERVE it”

        Reply
  • WARLOCK SUNDANCE June 7, 2013, 11:50 pm

    Geez….got me wondering what I ever did to anyone….
    I am preparing for me and mine, so as to not be a burden on anyone else.
    I work hard, I am a property owner and taxpayer, a good steward of what I have…..
    BUT…….
    I am a biker too……
    Been riding Harley Davidson’s for thirty two years, been riding in a club for many years…..but am I to understand that I will be part of the problem????? Come on…really?????

    I check this site daily for updates and highly value the content and the inspiration I gain here. It has helped me immensely in my journey to be self sufficient……

    I kindly ask if someone would explain to me what the deal is against bikers?

    Reply
    • Kimberly June 8, 2013, 12:28 am

      Warlock — I think a lot of the scariness of bikers is the fauly of tv/movies. I’ve read more good things about biker “gangs” than I’ve heard bad (there is a group of bikers in various places around the country for instance, that help protect children who were victims of rape/molestation. The piece I read on that made me cry big, ugly tears). In most circumstances, I would personally trust a biker gang than I would a church. Also, I see a difference in the wording. A biker gang is the scary kind. A biker club, not so much. :)

      Reply
    • SaskPrepper June 8, 2013, 1:20 am

      Greetings Warlock. I believe it has to do with the media talking sh*t about MC’s and vilifying members. I’ll tell ya what, when it comes down to it, I’d rather have MC members at my back than LE members. L&R Warlock. Its none of our business what sh*theads say about any of us. Until it reaches our ears.

      Reply
    • Jarhead Survivor June 8, 2013, 7:19 am

      Warlocks Sundance – good call, Man. It’s hard to write a short article without doing a little pigeon holing in a case like this. Just as all military guys aren’t bad (hell – I’m one of those) not all of the people in the other groups are going to be all bad either.

      As to your last question – I know guys who belong to motorcycle clubs who are great guys. On the other hand I know some bikers that aren’t. I’m referring to the lawless clubs and I think you know the types I’m talking about.

      In all, I don’t have a problem with anybody so long as they leave me in peace. Didn’t mean to step on any toes out there folks!

      Let me say this – if you’re a decent human being that falls into one of these categories then I’m not talking about you.

      Reply
      • WARLOCK SUNDANCE June 8, 2013, 12:09 pm

        Thank you

        Reply
    • Michael June 8, 2013, 10:11 pm

      “but am I to understand that I will be part of the problem????? Come on…really?”

      The bikers that donate teddy bears to local police and state patrols and show up at military funerals to help out and pay their respects: not a problem & probably a big help.

      The bikers that control much of the manufacture and distribution of methamphetamine in my area: big problem.

      Reply
      • Jason June 9, 2013, 11:41 pm

        A little trivia for you Michael -

        Methamphetamine used to be called “crank” because bikers used to transport & hide it in their crankcase.

        Reply
    • Mary June 9, 2013, 4:09 pm

      That’s the problem with generalizing about groups of people, it just doesn’t work. We just should not typecast people, it always wrong, there are always exceptions.

      Reply
  • john p foley June 8, 2013, 5:02 am

    ive been reading the blog for a long time thank you for taking the time to read it you will find that most of the prepared will fit right in with the military being an old army ranger I still have friends in the service as do most exmilitary as far as the gangs alcolhlics and drug addicts the will try to stay near the city for the most part for ease of acess to what they want you will see a lot of these people stealing tvs booze as well as drugs to get them high . most ordinary people will be to scared to even go outside just like they are now for fear of being killed or injured by the crazys . then you will have those who try to help all the im gonna call losers . don’t get me wrong im a Christian and I would try to help those that are helping them selves but as far as that goes most of those I wouldn’t lift a finger to help because these are the same people who were always screaming for help from the government

    Reply
    • T.R. June 8, 2013, 1:00 pm

      You have guns and enough people to defend with ? Safety in numbers , those with the numbers survive , those going solo or without numbers ………..are casualties . This goes for everybody , including myself . If you look at unprepared relatives as another mouth to feed , you just cut your chances to survive , if you look at them as more firepower , your on the right track . If this lasts long enough , all our preps are going to run out anyway …..no getting around that ……..at that time we will be forced to venture out to find or trade for the basics , the more hands on deck you have , the better the chance will be that you go home alive that day . Just sayin .

      Reply
  • irishdutchuncle June 8, 2013, 1:16 pm

    people will behave better than they thought they could, or worse than you, or they ever imagined.

    Reply
  • Out2Sea June 8, 2013, 5:04 pm

    Google Selco…one year in hell. He lived through the Balkin war with his city under siege for over a year. He gives a first hand account of what it is like when shtf.

    Reply
    • Jah June 9, 2013, 10:04 pm

      Selco’s stories just keep getting better and better.

      Reply
  • Plarvo June 8, 2013, 5:06 pm

    Long time reader, first time comment. I’ve always said if the TEOWAWTKI hits, things will disintegrate in the cities quickly, but things will really start to hurt when the long haul truckers stop. When the gas distribution infrastructure starts to go is when the chaos happens and your world becomes very very small. With no gas, your world becomes basically a 50 mile radius. I’m not too concerned about the hoards coming because hoofing to my area 200 miles depending on the time of year would be near impossible for most especially if no food was available along the way. My neighbors and I have chatted about this and the moment we feel the world start to crumble and see cars we usually don’t see or lots of people walking down the roads looking for something, then the bunker mentality hits. You can only feed so many people with so many chickens. What happens is a barter community will be set up and the people who win will be the people with skills, people will trade anything to get a cavity filled, or someone to make their ever growing teenager’s clothes. I have tried to learn as many skills as I can because my grandfather who was a farmer, could deliver a baby if he had to, build almost anything, and just knew a little about everything. I don’t think I ever saw him watch tv in his life. I guess what I’m saying that what happens is only going to matter within a few precious miles of your house. 6-12 months down the road, you’ll forget about 95% of the rest of the world, because it just will seem so far away. Sure gets some horses and a bike and do some traveling, but you’ll be too busy growing your own food, digging an outhouse and sewing your own clothes and defending it all with your life. I always think how small the world will become for all of us. I just don’t see madmax happening except in the beginning, but the gas will run out and with that their reign of terror on people just trying to eat will ease, and the basic idea of just living and eating will be important, and communities will begin again, with barter and trade happening, and life version 2.0 occurs.

    Reply
  • Spud June 9, 2013, 9:28 am

    Who worries me the most ?
    #1- The Yuppie who has no real reserves in the pantry, yet has a good stock of weapons and ammo. He is used to getting his way and not doing without. Think about it…he’s the one you see speeding and swerving his way thru traffic only to get at the next stop light the same as the guy who observes the rules and gets there also. These are people with no rational thought as to their actions vs. outcome. The me first because I deserve it type attitude.
    Whereas the poor guy in the ghetto is used to doing without and most likely knows how to survive with very little. This person I do not fear nearly as much as the Yuppie whom feels “entitled” to a better lifestyle. Which probably would include at least 75% of the population.
    When grouping up with other people take note of their current lifestyles. Are they outdoorsmen ? Are they over weight ? Are they willing to compromise, or do they always insist on their own way ?
    Do they read apocalypse type porn ? ( I feel this genre to be very good insight to possible scenarios for future reference )
    Are they real about the world, or is something else always to blame for the problems ? ( ie: It’s the Liberals, It’s the Conservatives…never to say it’s us ! )
    Do they keep their Religion private ?(or do they really believe in the constitution ? )
    Surrounding yourself with nothing but people whom only think as you do will eventually lead to failure. This type of group is incapable of thinking out of the box.

    Reply
  • Justin Case June 9, 2013, 10:35 am

    Good Post. I think you can break it down to three groups.
    Group 1
    Your honest prepared people will go to the store and try to buy whatever food and water they can.
    Group 2
    Your honest poor people will go to the store and take what food and water they can
    Group 3
    Your basically dishonest people will hit the electronics stores first. Once they realize they have no power, food or water they will try to loot the grocery stores. Since the grocery stores will be empty at that point they will come after group 1 and 2. That’s when you better have that gun.

    Reply
    • Spud June 9, 2013, 11:21 am

      When need becomes necessity there become much fewer “honest” folk.
      Those in group one that are truly prepared, would not be wasting time going to the store (example; you don’t see me trying to buy ammo right now) They should already have water stored or have containers ready to fill out of the tap while it’s still running. Same with fuel (have it on hand and rotate)
      Utilize this time frame to either hunker down and fortify or be getting the hell outta dodge !

      Reply
  • JL June 10, 2013, 2:10 am

    Wow this is the most comments I have seen in awhile. Very thought provoking, we as humans tend to lump people in groups. It’s human nature, some bad people do good things and good people do bad things. I myself could imagine crazy circumstances where I would do something illegal. My little brother is a criminal and a bad drug addict, but he has helped people change tires and is great with our older brother who is mentally ill. All of us have prejudices a preconceived notion about groups of people or a person.
    Personally I think we all should have a small group of people we can depend on. I need to network a little better, they don’t need to know I prep but knowing people can be a good thing.

    Reply
    • MaddMac June 10, 2013, 11:03 am

      I’m with you on the need to network. I don’t officially have a group of people I currently prepare with but i do have a list of people I’m trying to get to know. Each with talents that I believe will be beneficial. Risking OPSEC is a big deal so I’m trying to build relationships so i can determine friend or foe when folks come knocking

      Reply
      • Jarhead Survivor June 10, 2013, 8:06 pm

        Good points, guys. I’ve been thinking of writing a post about this topic for awhile now. You’ve given me motivation to get started. Thanks!

        Reply
  • gat31 June 10, 2013, 5:35 pm

    Being born and raised in Florida, l’ve been through several hurricanes throughout my life. Some were severe thunderstorms, and one was total devastation to the town l was in. l seen the Oprah special where they were talking about the raping, and pillaging, after Katrina and l couldn’t understand why. Then l realized it was because l was in a small town l think that made a difference. When power went out but the rain had stopped everyone ventured to their homes and brought supplies to a central location. We set up grills and fuel tanks and ate basically everyone’s food from the freezer. Help came after day 2 but no one was starving. No one was breaking into the electronics stores, or wal mart, etc. The guys were gathering chain saws after the first hour and driving and clearing roads and yards for the elderly. we did things like go house to house and check on people to see if they were ok, needed food, etc. We were without power for 11 days and people just cranked generators at night for lights and fans. We gathered gas cans for fuel and drove to the next town (20+) miles away and brought back gas. When help arrived with ice, water, canned goods we brought it all together and cooked big meals for everyone who needed it. One thing l did notice though to be honest was race separation. The spanish people stayed together, the whites, blacks, etc all kind of gathered as groups. No one was ever turned away from another group but rarely did anyone attempt to enter either. No one brought a gun, no one brought an attitude, it was just a big community of people all in the same situation and doing the best they could.
    Now saying this we did all expect things to go back to “normal” in a few days. However, if it was long term say over weeks months years l don’t know if that same mentality would have held up. Eventually l would expect someone to decide to be the leader of said group. That tends to lead to ego issues and other drama as well.
    In smaller towns people tend to know each other more if not by name at least by sight. l think that is why we all got along and was more helpful to each other because we “knew” each other at least by sight. If you don’t work in a job where you see most of your fellow townsman on a daily/weekly basis, l suggest you get out and meet your neighbors. Maybe have a block party or something to just get everyone together. Chances are good that A$$ hole neighbor down the street might suddenly be the only guy to have your back. That elderly couple that lives behind you might not have any family close by and someone will have to look out for them.(they could be your greatest asset with knowledge though) Who really knows if it will be Madmax or little house on the prarie or walking dead scenarios out there all we can do is try our best to protect our own and remember our core values.

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    • Jason June 10, 2013, 11:29 pm

      I really have anything to say except I am post #100!!

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  • Francesca Steele June 11, 2013, 11:35 pm

    Dear Jason, great post, always enjoy your thoughts. I still have nightmares about the three days of Martial Law and three weeks of civil un rest during the L.A. 92 riots. I was pregnant with my first child, my husband and I owned a store in L.A. He had a gun dealers license thus plenty of weapons and plenty of stored amo. (he has since passed away) He camped on the second floor of our building, ate year old wedding cake from the freezer and protected the neighborhood with others who had small businesses in the area. Our surprise was how organized the looting gangs were. They all had cell phones and were giving info on which neighborhoods were protected and which not. Consider this efficiency in a smart phone era with GPS, if an EMP, is not a factor. The gangs will also control the addicts, as they already do, so I would clump those two groups together. Another observation was the “bug out” of all civil authority. They completely disappeared. After observing Katrina, I conclude that large cities will be on their own to cull the weak. Call it the first wave of control. National Guard was sent in three days later for a week for Martial Law and mandatory curfew, then FEMA was set up. We were grateful to see them so the gangs would stop burning the buildings, and the fire dept. could get in. Most everyone was glued to their TVs to watch the idiot news casters comment on the obvious. My brother made the mistake of going to a 711 for cigs and got hit in the head with a 2×4 by the owner who thought he was going to loot him. It’s all human folly. Cheers

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  • figment June 14, 2013, 6:44 am Reply
  • OneRingToRuleThemAll June 19, 2013, 11:54 am

    My mom says that even in times of crisis, you should still be charitable. Is she saying that the Golden Horde is an exploitable resource (service of some sort for you in exchange of food and shelter for them) or is she too optimistic about human nature?

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    • Spud June 19, 2013, 1:16 pm

      Bit of naivete there I should think, the exploitable resource would become the giver of the charity. One could not possibly feed them all, and when does one close that imaginary gate leaving the rest to starve knowing that you have more within.
      Better to show no sign of plenty and save a few, rather than you all end up dead. That is a sad state of affairs but then so to is this whole train of thought.

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    • Pineslayer June 19, 2013, 8:13 pm

      ORTRTA, I have to agree with Spud. Initially showing that you have enough to help would be very risky. If you plan on needing help, set that up in advance. Charity is great as long as it doesn’t cost you everything. You just never know what that stranger is really all about.

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  • Kellie September 5, 2014, 12:50 pm

    “don’t engage the military”……do you know how many risky idiots you could have eliminated just by leaving that out? You’d have to be a fool for sure to even try….good info tho…thanks!

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