Drone Attacks On Americans – Open Discussion

If you haven’t heard by now there’s a  Justice Department memo going around okay’ing the use of drone attacks on American Citizens.

Ok folks.  Here’s your chance to sound off on this issue.

Is this a great idea for wiping out terrorism?  drone

Or is this the first step towards killing Americans with drones on our own soil?

Read the article and see what you think.

Questions?  Comments?

Sound off below!

-Jarhead Survivor

 

49 comments… add one
  • j.r. guerra in s. tx. February 11, 2013, 8:43 am

    Terrorist WITH proof – hesitant but okay. No proof – nope. Picking them up ALIVE is better alternative.

    Terrorist with no proof leaves FAR too much out there. We thought he was bad – my bad! Condolences to the family – we’ll try and do better.

    Just my .02.

    Reply
  • Jason February 11, 2013, 9:38 am

    Interesting, very interesting & a complicated issue. I am going to apologize in advance for the rant but here goes ….

    First off, a traditional “white paper” is a proposal NOT a done deal – it is open to discussion & modification. However, there inlays the problem – the potential to negotiate & modification instead of a complete elimination of the proposal.

    Forty years ago, the mere suggestion of something like this would have been thought of as pure treason against the American people. It would sure seem that we are evolving into a totalitarian state baby step by baby step.

    We have soooo much distraction hitting us that it becomes impossible for the average citizen to keep up, in fact, the average citizen is pretty damn numb by now.

    We are hell & gone from the information age, we are now in the “information overload age” due to virtually unlimited access to hundreds of millions of brains with nebulous ideas, provable theories, models & obscure facts. Any one person can only retain so much information & respond to the stimuli being thrown at them before shutting down & becoming numb.

    So here we sit at the beginning of a potential & serious attack against the American citizens saying “what the F is next??” Many, many years ago an instructor I had once said “the essence of communication is intention” – something I have never forgotten. It is the foundational agenda behind all communications.

    We have the big four right now to deal with, each in of itself is quite complicated & contains huge life changing alterations away from our original constitution which was written with intention for the continued betterment of the American people. Obama Care, “Assault Weapons” Ban, the legalization of most anybody who swam across & entered our country illegally & weaponized, unmanned aircraft being proposed as a modern way to deal with “terrorists” as now very loosely defined by the Patriot Act.

    Then there is the rest of the crap being thrown at us – failed banks, down economy, European & Middle East upheavals, Lindsay Lohan steals another bracelet, a rogue cop in California going postal & the list goes on & on & on ad nauseam. It has put us in a state where everything seems to be on a level playing field because it is all being punctuated with the same intensity of focus by the MSM.

    Makes one wonder what is really going on behind the curtain in our wonderful land of Oz …..

    So really, what do we do? I really, really hate to admit it BUT, unless something very radical happens, we are screwed.

    If you were a complete outsider looking in at America with an analytical eye, you could only conclude, based upon the intention of our founding laws regarding rights & freedoms, the following:

    Illegal aliens are illegal & need to be deported & enter legally.

    American citizens have the right to bear arms, pure & simple.

    The Patriot Act with it’s detention of virtually anybody & voiding due process is illegal.

    Drones over American soil, armed or not, is an abomination.

    These should be non issues & have never made it to the table for consideration, let alone discussion.

    So now what? Some kind of well thought out strategy AND action needs to be taken to systematically undo that which is being taken away. We need true American leadership that will embrace our foundation again & start clearing off those piles of bastardized dung that is ruining the original design for its people.

    It’s funny how freedom has become a 2-way street & now subject to the whims of whomever screams the loudest & markets the best.

    Reply
    • Chad Douglas February 13, 2013, 6:21 am

      A friggin-men

      Reply
  • Jim February 11, 2013, 9:46 am

    Ok, AS a Police Officer and member of my Depts ERT Team , I’m a very aggressive person, however the use of ANY drone let alone ARMED DRONES over CONUS greatly disturbs me, for Christs sake people we have ARMED robo death planes patrolling our skies, NOT as a DEFENSIVE weapon but as an OFFENSIVE WEAPON SYSTEM because we’re deemed a “Domestic Terrorist” hell almost by definition, the MAJORITY of people READING THIS can be considered a “Domestic Terrorist ” food for thought folks. Where is YOUR line in the sand ?!?!?!

    Reply
    • Jason February 11, 2013, 10:02 am

      Jim,

      Spoken like a true Domestic Terrorist. Ha, ha – funny me.

      Reply
    • smokechecktim February 11, 2013, 10:29 am

      jim: by the homeland security definitions, everyone on this blog IS a domestic terrorist. 2 month supply of food….terrorist. former military…..terrorist. More the two weapons….terrorist.

      Reply
    • sput February 11, 2013, 12:49 pm

      Jim, you hit it on the head. The current administration is still being held back from declaring a huge list of domestic terrorists, and taking “action” against them. Glad you are an “Oath Keeper” at least in spirit, if not signed up. Trust in GOD and your oath.

      Reply
    • Granite Prepper February 12, 2013, 5:06 pm

      passed mine a while back…..I’m lookin’ back and I can’t actually see that line anymore……anyone else having the same vision I am??

      Reply
  • Sgt. Survivor February 11, 2013, 10:15 am

    I’m not gonna throw in my 2 cents on the issue….just gonna give some fact. I have heard people talk about “drones” in ignorance. They are in no way automated any more than any other manned aircraft. “Unmanned” is a misnomer in this situation. There is still a human designating targets and pulling the trigger (and by “human”I mean a squadron of intel analysts, highly trained sensor operators and pilots). The only difference between “drones” and other traditional fighters/bombers is pilot location and loiter time. Again, don’t take this as an opinion in either direction, just putting out some facts…from a first hand perspective.

    Reply
    • sam February 11, 2013, 11:47 am

      yes, they’re the best and the brightest secret extermination squad this side of the pecos!

      Reply
  • smokechecktim February 11, 2013, 10:34 am

    sounds like they are going done the same path that the intel community went about 15 years ago. Electronic spying on americans inside the country was illegal. Then they developed a work a round. The federal government set up a review panel made up of retired federal judges. If the government wanted to spy on americans on US soil, they present the evidence and the threat to the panel and if approved then they could spy legally.

    Reply
  • Yikes! February 11, 2013, 10:43 am

    That’s precisely why the second amendment guarantees out right to have patriot missile batteries in our grain silos.

    Come and take it, Droney!

    Reply
  • Jason February 11, 2013, 10:53 am

    Reply
    • Jarhead Survivor February 11, 2013, 11:44 am

      Wow! That took even less time than I thought!!!! Thanks for that link, Jason.

      Man, that bumps it up a notch doesn’t it?

      Reply
    • irishdutchuncle February 11, 2013, 12:15 pm

      the timing of this is even more “too perfect” than the
      too perfect timing was, for the Newtown massacre.

      if these had been ready, they would have used them at Waco…
      or Ruby Ridge.

      Reply
      • sput February 11, 2013, 12:54 pm

        Good job Jason — The first “Official” drone target. And Irish, you’re damn right about Ruby Ridge, etc. I’m sure there are many other people and sites under survielance now.

        Reply
      • Jason February 11, 2013, 1:17 pm

        Yea, what Irish said. :-)

        Reply
    • Cory February 11, 2013, 2:00 pm

      If you read this article carefully it states that he has killed, not that he is accused of. Dont know this man, dont have a pony in this race, but something tells me that there is more to this story than we are being told. It reaks of beaurocratic stench.

      Reply
  • Wild Weasel February 11, 2013, 11:01 am

    I just can’t imagine that the public would stand for an attack against some one on American soil. Could this be the catalyst that would cause anarchy against a goverment? These are trying times my friends and we must be careful not to be dragged into the rhetoric of politicians trying to only accomplish their agenda. Level heads and logic must enter in discussions not emotional hype. That does not mean we must just bury our heads in the sand but that we must be diligent to aquire all facts before passing on opinion. There is as much dis information as there is information, it will be spun that this is for the good of Americans, lets make sure we stand our ground on what we fill is best for us and our Nation.

    Reply
  • Charles,,,, February 11, 2013, 11:10 am

    As we age, we look back on “our” history, and using TV/movies, what Buck Rogers thought of we now have, someone think’s and the idea becomes…. true, someone has to man these drones but will they have the immoral conscience to pull the trigger, my guess is, more will do what they are told then not…just read a book where drones are used against citizens, cerfew time, you get caught out of doors, blam, no need for a funeral theres not enough left to bury. As a prior posting state, the definition of terrorist covers many and with the swipe of a pen they can add more reasons to add more tag’s to anyone or group they wish too… and the battle rages while most are too numb to keep up with the bombardment of all we face, so, the next post should perhaps cover how to hide or eliminate said drone?? Just one man’s thoughts.

    Reply
    • Sgt. Survivor February 11, 2013, 11:32 am

      The question of the trigger pullers morals isn’t unique to the “drones”. It is also a concer in manned aircraft, police and other government agencies. I think that all this press targeted directly at the “drone” is misplaced. It should be directed at the lawmakers and not at one particular piece of equipment. Demonizing the “drone” is like saying the “assault rifle” is bad, when in reality it comes down to those in control of the particular piece of equipment that is good or bad. BTW, I love my AR’s and I think the “drone” is a great technological advance that has saved lots of American lives. Once again, this should not be taken as an opinion of how they should be used, just that I think the debate is a little off course.

      Reply
      • Jarhead Survivor February 11, 2013, 11:50 am

        Sgt Survivor – I think you make a good point here about the drone just being a tool. Once people realize that it’s not the technology, but the people behind it making the decisions maybe we can get legislature in place to ban it.

        Using the drone is combat is fine, but on our home soil not so much. Who makes the decision about who is a terrorist and who isn’t? The renegade cop in Jason’s link above isn’t a terrorist, he’s a criminal. We’re already opening the door to use this technology on American soil.

        Pandora’s box is opening and evil is getting ready to pervade our world.

        Reply
      • Cory February 11, 2013, 1:57 pm

        I have to agree with your assessment of importance. It is of greater concern to me that there is no due process. The constitution seems to matter little to the government, that the bill of rights is just an annoyance to them.

        Reply
        • kp89dc February 11, 2013, 9:06 pm

          +1

          Reply
  • GoneWithTheWind February 11, 2013, 11:41 am

    Too much emphasis on these few terrorists who happen to be Americans. They are terrorists in a foriegn land working with al qaeda. We would bomb them from planes or shoot them from the ground so why shouldn’t we kill them using a remotely operated vehicle?

    Reply
  • riverrider February 11, 2013, 11:58 am

    well first, we can kill them without the chance to surrender and give up intel, but we can’t waterboard them? can you say hypocrisy? second, in these papers which were never meant to see the light of day there IS NO mention of american soil, nor foriegn soil. THESE PEOPLE MEAN TO USE THIS “JUSTIFICATION” ON US, HERE! get it thru your head. whats worse is that the regime played the congress like a fiddle, as they are considering an “oversight panel” that would say yay or nay on your death without trial, based on “reports”. does anybody see the problem here? like no due-process, no 4th or 5th amendment rights, just a hint of trouble and BAM you’re dead. riverrider won’t turn in his weapons, he must be a terrorist. food, military, 2a, yep he’s a terrorist. BOOM! …….okay even if they don’t arm the drones, do you want them looking in your window at night? watching your daughter/wife sunbath? want it on youtube, cause i can garrantee it’ll be on there in no time. we better step up now. yes, rescue lost children in the woods. no “routine survelliance” nor any other without a warrant, one with probable cause behind it, not a rubber stamp. we have the momentum, lets keep it rolling.

    Reply
    • riverrider February 11, 2013, 12:02 pm

      the cops shot up two female paper carriers and a surfer dude, “looking” for dorner. think they won’t have “incidents” with armed drones?

      Reply
      • Cory February 11, 2013, 2:02 pm

        Saw that. I dont believe they want to capture him, just assasinate.

        Reply
  • Pineslayer February 11, 2013, 12:04 pm

    Drones bad. Any prediction’s when the first one will be shot down over the USA. What is the best round to bring down a terrorist drone?

    Reply
  • smokechecktim February 11, 2013, 1:00 pm

    actually I’m aware of two uses of drones that have been going on for quite awhile. Lots of search and rescues groups have access to smaller drones that are used to search difficult areas. The border patrol has been using them for a while, but in both cases they are unarmed.

    Reply
    • Jason February 11, 2013, 1:15 pm

      I bet we’d far fewer people crossing the border if the drones were armed & did a few “practice” strafing runs near the known crossings.

      But the next evolution will be the drug cartels buying some drones to check out the border patrol’s activities, then the unmanned dog fights will begin!

      Reply
      • riverrider February 12, 2013, 9:48 am

        um, j, the cartel has used drones already. both to drop drugs off and to watch the bp activity. they also built their own sub, and used a punkin’ chunker to shoot drugs across in pvc canisters. a+ for effort.

        Reply
  • Charles,,,, February 11, 2013, 1:09 pm

    Well said Sarge S.,the technology is good until it is turned upon it’s own citizens by those hungry for control, as in all the spy cameras hanging everywhere, sure they do help the police find bad guyz but adding them to highways etc. to track ALL, the GPS pick up in our cell phones that can locate ALL, 1984 came out of one man’s mind Orson Well’s, did he glimpse a futuristic America?

    Reply
  • Mark February 11, 2013, 1:11 pm

    Trees are going to become very popular as preppers plant fast-growing varieties 10′ apart all across their homesteads.

    Reply
  • Novice February 11, 2013, 2:29 pm

    If a “fellow citizen” wants to strap a towel to his head, yell allah akbar, and move over Afghanistan to “join the resistance” then I say he’s fair game for any drone or sniper that wants to use him for target practice. When they want to use those tactics within our own borders it’s time to draw the line no matter how big of a scum bag the “terrorist” is. This is still a nation of laws. If he’s done something wrong, let the court system work to take care of him.

    Reply
  • T.R. February 11, 2013, 3:11 pm

    Shouldn’t happen except in Stalinist Russian or Nazi Germany .

    Reply
  • Roseman February 11, 2013, 3:51 pm

    Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. That’s what the Left would say about our concers here. They try to marginalize us and have the willing assistance of the main stream media.
    This program is not constitutional, no question. With all the information outlets available, the majority of Americans are not paying attention, are stupid or both.
    Will the government decide Wayne LaPierre is a domestic terrorist? Or Ted Nugent?
    This must be stopped. Call or write your congressman.

    Reply
  • Anonymous February 11, 2013, 5:58 pm

    personally, I think this is a “no brainer”. It is against the Constitution. Then there is the tricky point of a person who has joined with another country’s group to fight Americans…that is treason. In cases of treason, it would be a death sentence, so a drone killing would be acceptable IF there was proof and a trial or IF they were shooting at an American (battle killing). The part that makes this so horrible, is that though “they” say it’s for Americans over seas, fighting with the known terror groups of Al Quaida or the Taliban, there is ot LAW on this (or “code” such as the Geneva Convention) so there is nothing to keep the government from calling any one of us a terrorist and doing the killing here on our soil.

    Reply
  • Lumberjok February 11, 2013, 6:26 pm

    The constitution does not allow extrajudicial assassinations….period…end of discussion.

    Bush on the constitution: “it’s only a piece of paper”. Obama has been only too happy to follow in his footsteps and proceed to shred what little is left of our constitution.

    The Obama administration has already been executing US citizens abroad. Google Al-Aulaki, his 16 year old son and Samir Khan, all three US citizens, all three were popped in Yemen. No charges, no evidence presented and no trial…
    all 3 of them taken out with “surgical” drone strikes.

    This is a slippery slope….how soon before that douche Eric Holder concocts a rationale to do the same here in the US ?

    Reply
  • Robert February 11, 2013, 7:27 pm

    Our Constitution is supposed to protect us against our Government. Armed drones should not be used against American Citizens, no matter how heinous the crimes they are ACCUSED of are. They have the legal Right to a trial and due process. Period, end discussion.

    Better to err on the side of Liberty. No drones over US soil, armed or not.

    Reminds me of something Franklin said, “Those who would sacrifice Liberty for Safety deserve neither.”

    Reply
    • corky February 12, 2013, 7:01 am

      You are right Robert. What about innocent till proven guilty in a court of law. We keep giving up our rights one by one. A line is drawn in the sand and we say “if you cross this line….”, but when they do, we just draw another line.

      Reply
  • GoneWithTheWind February 11, 2013, 9:03 pm

    We are at war with the terrorists/radical islam and have been since the mid 80’s and probably before thatby some measures. There is nothing in the constitution that says you cannot kill an enemy on the field of battle. In the war on terror every inch of the world is the field of battle. Should we not have shot at or bombed the enemy in WW II??? Should we not shoot at or bomb the enemy in the war on terror?

    Reply
    • Lumberjok February 11, 2013, 10:16 pm

      Your points are well taken Gone With The Wind. Whenever the US military engages in combat operations in a sovereign foreign nation ( ground troops, bombing or missile strikes ) that is by definition war. The executive branch does not have the power to declare war…..I refer you to article 1 section 8 of the US constitution…..only congress can issue a declaration of war….since that hasn’t happened….these actions in Yemen are by definition a war crime.

      You may also wish to Google….drone strike collateral damage Afghanistan. What you will find is that some “surgical” drone strikes zapped weddings where the intended victim was not present…however….a bunch of women…children and completely innocent people were sent to their graves.

      Reply
      • Pineslayer February 12, 2013, 12:04 am

        Lumberjok, I agree with your comments. How many innocent Americans will die by drone strikes before we revolt, like people in other countries. What travesty will finally awaken the masses? I hold little hope that most will care enough to challenge conventional brainwashing. Easier to go with the flow than swim against the tyranny of those with the control of it all. I really hope that I am wrong and pessimistic and that I will wake up and hear the news that the Fed is gone and will are protecting our interests at home.

        Reply
      • Anonymous February 12, 2013, 11:49 am

        Most constitutional scholars would agree that it is not necessary for congress to “declare war” in order for them to satisfy the requirements of the constitution. Most agree that in fact congress did declare war on terrorists after 9/11. It didn’t look just exactly like the only modern declaration of war, i.e. the one Dec 8th 1941 but it was a declaration. The technicality you point out would make everything since WW II a war crime something I doubt would get any traction in any court including the Supreme Court. Was every person since the end of WW II in the military and federal government a war criminal because of the many military engagements? I think in order for the president to actually be guilty of a war crime as a result of article 1 section 8 of the US constitution the president would have to continue in a war after congress actively voted against it. Congress has that ability, they can stop a president either by such a vote or by denying funding. If they do not then they acquiesce and by doing that have voted for the war.

        Reply
  • Lumberjok February 12, 2013, 7:36 pm

    I respectfully disagree….when in doubt refer to the original document. Article 1 section 8 grants the power to declare war to the congress and only the congress. There are no modifiers in parenthases which allow the president to delare war….as long as congress doesn’t slap his wrist.

    So far as court opinions are concerned…..every president from FDR forward has been very careful to pack the federal judiciary and the supreme court with appointees who are supportive of military adventurism and the vast expansion of the powers of the executive branch.

    Reply
  • BM February 13, 2013, 8:53 am

    I’ve comments about UAVs before, and tend to get flamed for my opinions. I’m an engineer selling airborne cameras for use in both drones and aircraft. I can comfirm that you have THOUSANDS of camera flying above you. Police departments, border patrol, DEA, coast guard, fire services and who know how many military departments are our customers.
    The only real difference with drones is, they are cheaper. If you dont like cameras in the skies, then you are decades too late. I think what you want is it to be an expensive pain the ass to use airborne cameras, not the cheap(er) and permanently aloft advantages that UAVs provide.

    Reply
  • Adam February 15, 2013, 8:49 am

    Without reading all the comments, etc. As a police officer, I have a huge problem with armed drones over the US. I also have a huge problem with any drone executing a US citizen for any reason.

    We have due process in this country for a reason. It is to prevent the government from doing what it wants without a fair trial. I do understand the drone is a tool, but the policies in place for its use are what concerns me. I do understand drones can be used for surveillance for SAR, etc. But they should not be fed into any intel agency and they should not be recorded.

    Reply
  • grayfox114 February 18, 2013, 7:14 am

    I’ve been following this drone stuff for some time, and I offer the following: As a former deputy sheriff, rural extreme Northern Calif., my passion on night shift was watching the nite sky. Now this was 5 years ago, and at that time, the area I patrolled was “infested” with UFO’s that could only have been drones, certainly not flying saucers…craft that could coast silently overhead at low speeds or even hover, could descend or climb like a helicopter, and which could accelerate to over 120 mph very quickly, as witnessed by my CHP buds. There was no doubt these ufo’s were being tested, if not used, for surveillance at that time, so it’s no surprise that they are now being foisted onto the American public. They work, there has been no particular public outcry, and the gov’t needs the capabilities of the drones to keep track of the subjects….big brother has been around for years! And while I have no knowledge of their being armed, I would not doubt it. At the speeds and altitudes these objects used, they would have been sitting ducks for any redneck with a shotgun, so I have the feeling they were armed, possibly trolling…just thoughts. And for what it’s worth, the sightings of these objects decreased to almost none, a year or so ago, as quickly as they had started. Tests complete???

    Reply

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