Before I get into today’s post I’d like to tip my hat to the folks over at Be Prepared Now, a new advertiser with us here at SHTFblog. Thanks guys!
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By now everybody’s heard about the shooting in Arizona and the people who were killed or injured during the attack. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families during this awful time.
Just a quick mention here – very soon now there’s going to be a nationwide discussion about gun laws, who should have guns, who shouldn’t have them, etc. This usually happens after an incident like this, so it’s really no surprise, or shouldn’t come as one when our rights as gun owners is questioned. I just wanted to mention this as we go forward, so that we can all keep an eye on it. More discussion to come in later posts…
What I’d really like to talk about today is the Westboro Baptist Church protesting at the nine-year-old girl’s funeral. These are the people that protest at military funerals with signs and banners that say, “Thank God for dead soldiers” and “God hates fags” and all kinds of other hate. First of all, my own personal opinion is that I hope the Hell’s Angel’s (bikers love to show up at these events and keep the protesters away from the grieving families) stop by and kick their collective asses up and down main street, however, that’s a visceral reaction to the situation.
I’ve seen videos of these church goers being interviewed and when confronted with the statement, “We’re going to stop you from protesting,” they always sneer back, “You’d take away our constitutional right to free speech?” 
That’s a tough one, because at what point do we stop free speech? As preppers and Americans it’s important that we have the right to say what we want, speaking out against the government, the economy, various agencies, and what have you. There have been some people trying to say that what the church does is harassment, but through various legalities they’ve managed to successfully keep up their torrent of hate.
All you have to do is watch a couple of videos of these people and you’ll realize just how crazy they really are. Examples: Vid 1, Vid 2. These are just a couple of random videos I picked up off Youtube and watch them or not, trust me when I say they’re crazy. And they start brainwashing their kids young too, so they can grow up to be every bit as hateful as the parents.
But are they crazy like a fox? They are undoubtedly one of the most hated churches/organizations in the USA today, but I can’t help but wonder what they’re getting out of it. The woman representing the Phelps family (she’s one of the daughters) in both of these videos is a lawyer and you don’t get through law school by being stupid. So what’s the catch? Are they making some kind of crazy endorsements somewhere? Are they doing this for the notoriety? If we ban them from speaking do we force them to give up their constitutional rights? Is it actually possible that they really believe the hate that they spew?
I don’t have any answers, but I’d sure love to hear what you think. Reply below with any thoughts, views, concerns, or ideas.
Thanks!
-Jarhead Survivor
Gun Laws, Violent Crime, and the Right to Protest
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32 comments
The motive could be money. Fred Phelps is an attorney and I THINK several other members of his family are attorneys.
Before they protest, they hype up the event and let everyone know they’re going to be there. Then they protest for a while and move to their next location.
I believe they’re just setting up a trap to sue people.
Hmm, I hadn’t thought of that particular angle; however, during my research I watched one video where someone drove by and threw something out the window and hit a little boy protester.
First of all, I’m not for harming kids because they’re only doing what they’re told, but it seems like that might have been a good time to sue someone. Or maybe you’re thinking of a much bigger incident in which case it might make sense.
Good thought.
I wasn’t aware of that one. If they didn’t sue when the boy was hit, then that probably debunks my theory.
I can’t find any avenue to “donate to their cause” as a casual member of the public. Maybe they’re just crazy.
These people make me angry. I don’t mind protests, but I’m against protesting at funerals. Like you said, crazy as a fox. If they’re an honest church trying to spread their interpretation of the gospel, they’ve figured out a pretty powerful way to spread it even if it doesn’t have the effect they intended.
I fell exactly the same way. And maybe they are only trying to spread their gospel. Who knows? It is a powerful way to get their message across.
I’m sickened by the Westboro Baptist people (I refuse to dignify them by calling them a church), but I’m also against censorship. However, the First Amendment only prevents government from passing laws against speech, or jailing you for speaking out, but it doesn’t give anyone the right to be listened to!
The new law passed that mandates protesters stay 300 feet away from a funeral during the service, and for an hour before & after the service, may not stand up to legal challenges despite the best intentions of those who passed it (and as much as we might want it to).
I particularly like the caring ways people have responded to the Westboro Baptist idiots. http://www.patriotguard.org/ is one group who will attend a funeral (at the family’s request) where protesters are likely to show up, to shield the invited guests from the interlopers. A group in Tuscon is planning on dozens of people blocking the view of the Westboro protesters via a silent row of people wearing huge fabricated “angel wings”.
I’d heard that they were going to do that. When I first saw “angels” in the headline I thought it was the Hell’s Angels!
Speaking as someone who is WELL STUDIED in Law(you can call this a professional opinion if you want) Gen laws are fairly useless. They are only properly enforced when it suits someones agenda or as an enhancment to serious cases. All gun laws REALLY acheive is to surpress the rights of regular people. The truth is that regular decent folks so far outnumber the thugs and criminals that these laws do little to help if any. In fact, one could argue soundly that they do NOTHING because the ones they are focussed at(criminals) do not obey the law or they would not be criminal and err go, no need for the law. A disarmed public is a target, a sheep farm, history tells us this. Every place in the world that has been disarmed is either inundated with crime or followed by genocide. As for the rights to free speech and protest, I beleive these rights are absolute to the extent of constitutional muster(yelling fire etc.) HOWEVER the example given above people protesting funeral services of ANY KIND could be construed as enciting violence(thats what it will be if the protest any of my kin folk, be cause I assure you if they show up, THERE WILL BE SOME VIOLENCE) and thus could be limited or surpressed. IT is one thing to protest something you believe is unjust or unconstitutional or inappropriate but it is entirely another issue to protest the death of someone and demonize people you dont even know. This fits the paradigm of the legal limitations placed on free speech and eventualy a D.A. somewhere will grow a pair and put a stop to this crap………if a family member doesnt do it first. Then they can prootest thier OWN funeral.
A well organized argument. Thanks for your thoughts.
Sometimes the “visceral reaction” is the only weapon we have to stop this kind of insanity. Speech of this kind, without any civility, is not what the founding fathers had in mind IMHO.
I’m reminded of when I was in elementary school, 5th or 6th grade. I’m tall, always have been, and I’m a “nice guy”. Well, this boy from another class had a bad case of “short man complex”, and was an aspiring bully to boot. I tried to “reason” with him as to why I didn’t want a schoolyard fight. When he escalated one day to “hocking” a big you-know-what at me, he quickly realized he’d mads a big mistake. It took to male teachers to pull me off of him. Afterwards he was one of my “best friends”. Picture the scene in “A Christmas Story” where Ralphie tackles the bully and you get the general picture.
These folks, along with all of those who would seek to control our lives, are the adult (using “adult” loosely) version of school bullies. Some will wise up before their actions backfire on them. But I doubt these Westboro nuts will.
I think they are fruit loops. Types like that don’t bother me, as long as they keep their distance. I’d hose them down, just like any other crap I found on my driveway.
I’m more worried about you, Brother. The term “hate” is a pretty loaded and you used it to describe these freaks 5 times, all in the appropriate sense, straight from the liberal lexicon. Not belonging to the Liberal Orthodox Church, I think it quite ominous to throw around the ecumenical terms by someone who I know knows better. You and I have no ability to read the hearts of men, which would be implied by the purported meaning of the term. In reality, we both know it means something that the Liberal Orthodox Church considers to be evil. That Church will never define my language (or my moral bearing), since I know it worships Deceit and Control, as opposed to Truth and Freedom.
I hope you take this in the sincere concern it is meant.
Honestly, your comment left me a little confused. I will say this though, you may be right in that we can’t read the hearts of men; however, I am an observer in the scientific sense and if I see people spouting hateful things then I will classify them as a hateful group. Their signs say, “God Hates Fags,” and “God Hates You”, and “Thank God for Dead Soldiers.” And on and on. I honestly doubt they want to enfold me with brotherly love because I’m not part of their group. If you have a better way of describing them please let me know.
In most cases dealing with free speech I will look the other way if I don’t like what they’re saying, but when innocent people who are at their most vulnerable are being victimized by groups like this then I feel it’s necessary to stand up for what I believe in and I believe these people preach hate and cause unnecessary pain to good people.
Taking the bully analogy a step further, they remind me of a pack of coyotes on an injured deer. Wait until it’s weak and then set to tearing it apart.
I’m still wondering where their “theology” or their way of thinking comes from. How do you suppose it got so twisted? I’ve read various parts of the bible and I can’t remember any place that says God Hates You.
The Bible talks about how homosexuality is sin: “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. However, they seem to miss the entire overlying premise of the Bible which states that God hates sin, not the sinner which is why Jesus died for us to take our sin away. You’ll also notice in that passage that there are more sins that just homosexuality and to God, sin is sin.
These people’s theology is called aberrant theology; it’s wrong. They use religion and, in this case Christianity, to meet their own ends, whatever those ends may be. Just know that their theology is not accurate and does not hold water with Christians that actually read their Bible.
Whatever you believe on this topic, at lease make sure you read your Religious literature before starting a church to make sure it lines up.
I appreciate their right to free speech and as American’s, they’re entitled to it. However, America is becoming more and more a “feelings” country. 40 years ago, if you tried to protest a funeral of someone’s little girl or a soldier’s funeral, you’d get your butt handed to you, quite physically, for being the jack-jawed degenerate that you are. That’s what’s missing in this country and why these kind of shenanigans are allowed to continue; because the everyday person can’t stand up for themselves and forcefully remove stupidity from stupid people. I can guarantee these people wouldn’t show up if they knew they were just going to get the crap kicked out of them time and time again. The only reason they do show is because the families can’t do anything: American politicians have advocated “feelings” more than a family’s right to mourn and common sense.
You nailed it right on the head with the political correctness of our country!
I am no theologian, but I remember as a kid always hearing in church “hate the sin, love the sinner”. My grandfather was a southern Baptist preacher (after he came home from WWII, where he was a ball gunner and bombardier over German territory in B-17’s). My other grandfather is also a retired Baptist preacher (Served in Korea with the Army for 2 tours, still won’t talk about it). My father was a Baptist preacher before he joined the Army (served as an armor instructor, Special Forces liaison and transportation corp field officer).
I have been inundated with religion and military service for as long as I can remember. NEVER have I heard ANYONE spewing as much BILE out of their mouths as these folks! I won’t go into what I think their motivation or agenda is, because from my experience you can’t “read” a lunatic! As someone who was raised to be in the military (torn ACL kept me out), and someone who has discussed these “wacko’s” with friends/family who are serving, the MAJORITY of service men/women I talk to say that they don’t agree by any means with the message of Westboro, but they will lay down their lives if need be to defend their right to say it. THAT speaks to the character of the men and women who make up our armed forces! All I can say is, LET THEM TRY THAT AROUND HERE!
As a Police Science student I am learning more and more about the law every day. From what I understand, the right to freedom of speech is protected whether it’s a popular opinion or not. However, again from what I understand, they are infringing on the FAMILIES rights to peaceably assemble (also the first amendment). By showing up to fallen heroes funerals and even the funeral of that little girl, they seem to be looking for a violent response. A question I have about the whole thing… I was under the impression that to LEGALLY hold a “peaceful” protest, you are required in most states to get a permit from the local government. So if they don’t have a permit, ARREST THEM! If they go looking for a permit, DENY IT! They have proven that they cannot and will not hold a peaceful protest.
Loved your second paragraph.
Chefbear58 if we have a ‘Right’ to peacefully assembly why would a permit be needed? If you go to arrest someone for not having a permit for assembly, would you not be denying their ‘Right’ to assemble? Isn’t a Police officer just a Policy Enforcement officer? Aren’t most police forces incorporated?
Choose carefully, lives are at stake here.
MOFreedom2@yahoo.com
I might be a little biased when it comes to police officers, as I am in school to become one (specifically a Game Warden), but FOR THE MOST PART- your average police officer, much like the average soldier doesn’t do the job for the pay, the average salary where I live for a LEO is about $25k, or even to project the “governments interest”, again FOR THE MOST PART police officers do their job because they are of the mindset that their job is to protect the public yes generally the public sees that as enforcing the law. However, I think one of the most influential people in my decision to become a police officer said it best “A police officer is not just an ‘enforcer’, you also have to be a social worker, counselor, negotiator and more than any of these a servant of your fellow man. A police officer, just like a soldier has to be willing to put aside the needs of him/herself and their family to ensure that their country and fellow countrymen are safe at the end of the shift.” This comes from a Marine who served 20 years, when he retired he became a Deputy Sheriff and still is to this day.
The reason most local governments require a permit to hold a PEACEFUL PROTEST (not to peaceably assemble specifically, I did mention the “protest” stipulation previously) is to properly distribute police and other government assets (like street sweepers, garbage trucks, ect) to accommodate not only the security of protesters but also to ensure a safe environment for the rest of the public (yes that can include emptying dumpsters when they get full).
You need to understand that most police departments are based on Utilitarian ideals, meaning “The most good for the most amount of people”. This is also the underlying principle of the way our government is structured, “majority rule, minority rights”, this is a slight twist on the Utilitarian idea because it is designed to “ensure the most good for the most people, while protecting those not of the majority”. You can thank Jeremy Bentham for this ideology, at least in theory (it is hard to implement consistently in the “real world”) it seems like the solution to many political conflicts. If this sounds like sociological theory, it is, but it has been applied to modern policing (if you want to learn more, look into Sir Robert Peel and August Volmer).
Sorry, that last part about Peel & Volmer was supposed to say that they were two of the pioneers in applying sociological/psychological and theories from other disciplines to modern policing.
I just heard on Fox News that they released a statement saying they are not going to protest at the funeral of the 9yo girl.
Looks like they may have “blinked”.
Excellent! Those parents deserve some quiet time to grieve.
I live in Mo and we have been dealing with this jack wagon for years. He and his so called church are worthless POS’s and karma is going to have a hay day with them. With that said they still have freedom of speech but it’s to bad in this politically correct world we live in that we can’t just kick their collective asses…The patriot guard does a wonderful job dealing with them but I was thinking maybe we could convince them to protest somewhere else like East LA, KCK, The Bronx, or maybe we could convince them to protest China since there is no religion there…If heaven is full of complete F#CKS like them I gladly do my time in Hell…Wish people would learn the difference between religion and God in this world it would be suck a better place……
Amen Rushman.
They have a Chinese flag flying over their compound.
The world would be SUCH a better place not suck. Sorr for my rant but these guys are the basis of all things wrong with this world. Funny they don’t protest in the “hood” where they know something might happen to them….just saying
Better than “the hood”, I haven’t heard anything of them trying something like that in central VA. I know plenty of “leathernecks” at Quantico who would LOVE to get hold of a few of them! Not to mention the Army, Navy, Air Force, “Coasties” and numerous police officers around here! I also know of quite a few “good ol’ boys” (like me) who would like to do a little “calibration” of their “protesting”.
@Jarhead- Thanks
Two months ago I would have worried about congress passing some crazy gun law as a result of the shooting. Now with the Republicans are control so I do not think we really have to worry much about it. We do need to figure out how to get the mentally ill, who present a danger to the public at large off the street and keep them off the streets for good. The fact is there are some whose mental illness is so bad that all we can do is keep them locked up.
But then Rep King (R) comes up with the idea to make it a crime to come within 1000′ of a federal official with a gun. This is an incredibly stupid gun control idea and from a Republican! I have a better idea how to keep us and them safe at the same time. A new law that would make it a crime for a government official to come within 1000′ of a citizen or a citizens money. I know I would feel safer.
Did anyone catch that somebody gave them air time on national TV in exchange for not protesting the girls funeral?! THAT is lunacy! I won’t argue that it is better that the family doesn’t have to deal with these nut-job’s, but to give them time on TV? Something about the potential for these fools to spread their hate-filled “message” doesn’t sit well with me.
I didn’t hear that. Man, that’s sickening.
Theres always a bunch of wackos trying to get themselves on liberal news programs all the time