Is Our Entitlement Nation Crippling Us?

Lately I’ve been wondering if our country is becoming more and more of an entitlement nation.  When the economy tanked and people started losing their jobs food stamps and other types of welfare started to soar, which you’d expect.

I understand that in a good many cases people have lost their jobs and need some assistance until they can get back on their feet.  Or maybe there’s a young mother raising kids by herself and needs food and milk for her children.  I have no problem with someone who’s down on their luck and finds themselves needing a hand, that’s what these kinds of programs are for; however, what happens when a percentage or our population makes a career of living off welfare?

Check out this Walmart welfare article written by a young lady working here in Maine and some of the things she saw at Walmart while she worked there.

Here’s a story about water dumping in a food stamp scam.  Basically what happens is that people on food stamps will buy a case(s) of water then go outside the store and dump them out onto the ground for the money they can get in returnable bottles.  Once it’s converted to money they can buy cigarettes, alcohol, or whatever.  Of course they take quite a hit money-wise, but they don’t care because it’s not money they had to earn.

Maine isn’t the only one with a food stamp problem.  This story shows that food stamp usage in Idaho is up 270% since 2007.  Again, this is partially due to the economy.

I won’t harp too much on the subject, but I did want to lay a little groundwork.  I don’t have any solid numbers on how many people are doing this, but here in Maine it seems to be fairly common.  Now imagine if TSHTF and these people who have made it a career to be dependent on the state are suddenly without government aid?

In the small town I grew up here in Maine we lived next door to a family that lived off state aid and they had it down cold.  They knew how to work the system for maximum potential and when they ran low on cash they’d rob the local beer store for money and beer.  (That’s not conjecture on my part.)  I see these same people today and some of them are still on welfare to one degree or another.  For them it’s just a way of life.

How will these people act?  This is not a facetious statement meaning, “I think they’ll rob and loot at the drop of a hat.”  I’m honestly curious as to how they will act when the government is no longer there to protect and feed them.

Let me say one more time that I understand that sometimes good people fall on hard times and need a hand.  Where I draw the line is those people who make a career out of depending on the government to subsidize their lifestyle.

Do you think that this is something to worry about if TSHTF?  What are your thoughts on this?

-Jarhead Survivor

86 comments… add one
  • Odd Questioner January 20, 2012, 10:39 am

    Man, we’ve come a long, long way.

    When I was a kid, the biggest insult you could hurl at someone (and the best way to get in a fight) was to accuse a kid or his parents of being on welfare. In the neighborhood I live in for a chunk of my childhood (a gov’t housing project), many folks did get government assistance, but no one talked about it.

    At the checkout counter, you knew who had food stamps because of the shame in their eyes when they handed out that book of brightly colored paper to the cashier.

    I think we need to go back to something similar. Yeah, I know all about the self-esteem stuff, but forcing folks on assistance to use brightly colored paper to pay for their groceries instead of an EBT card that they can swipe would go a long way towards re-instilling that sense of shame.

    Speaking of scams, a little something else I’ve noticed lately: Perfectly fit people standing at parking lot exits (and highway rest stops) with cardboard signs declaring their “disabled veteran” status. I don’t know about you, but if someone can stand on their feet for hours on end, in harsh weather, and moves like a soccer player when someone rolls a window down and waves something green? I’m not really seeing the disability here. Recent news reports stalk quite a few of these folks, and show that outside of downtown, a disturbing majority of them walk to their fairly decent vehicles when they’re done, and drive to their fairly decent homes.

    Now downtown (PDX) near the shelters and along many streets there? There’s a lot of folks that the world has basically shit on; folks who are sleeping outdoors, and are in serious need of help (and not just a buck or two). It’s fairly easy to tell who they are.

    So when TEOTWAWKI hits, you’re going to get two reactions:

    * true street people who will carry on somewhat as they always have for awhile, though the weak and the old will die off fairly quickly. Most of the survivors will make do as they always have, and may even see it as an increased opportunity to forge a new home for themselves if they can just hold out.

    * the scammers and self-entitled will go apeshit. These will be the folks that become the willing soldiers for the criminals gangs that start to arise and assert their power – not because they feel empowered to do so, but because this will end up being the easiest way to keep fed and warm in a world where the government won’t do it for them.

    Reply
  • Alexia January 20, 2012, 10:41 am

    we were on welfare. my hubby lost his VERY good job 3 years ago, our food stores carried us thru pretty much 6 months (which I had underestimated). and his picking up side jobs here and there were able to pay for our bills/rent.

    It was when we realized that we (the kids, especially) hadn’t had fresh fruits in a few weeks that we finally had to ‘give in’ and get on food stamps! can honestly say that was the LOWEST point in my life. but we really needed it.

    Now, had I known how to garden, cook from scratch, and preserve food that I had bought on sale I probably would have been able to stretch my food stores even longer…. (and yes I *did* learn how to mostly do those things!)

    anyway, all that to say that I realize these programs are SUPER abused, I personally saw way too many people taking off their jewelry in their nice new trucks to go into their appointments.

    but most of these people know no other life, they have always been, and they just assume they will always be on welfare. its really hard to ‘blame’ the people I consider victims. yes, they are lazy, but they have never known a day of hard work in their lives….

    anyway, I am proud to also report that while I was on fs I was able to slowly rebuild my food stores (geez they give a LOT of food stamps per month!)… and when hubby got a job I was SO HAPPY to call and ask them to cancel my ‘account’. (btw, its almost harder to get off than it was to get on!)

    Reply
    • carl January 20, 2012, 12:58 pm

      About 8 years ago I lost my VERY well paying executive position because da govmint sent nearly the entire industry to India. The next year my wife started becoming extremely. We had no insurance and our savings and investments went very quickly. ( a side note here, If you are suddenly unemployed, do NOT attempt to mainatain your previous life style, you would be surprised how fast you can burn through many many thousands of dollars). We went to the county to see what help for her quickly mounting medical bills we could get. Well all of a sudden we had food stamps, Medical help, prescription help, heating assistance, milage re-enbursement, Access to the county food panty, access to church food banks all over the county, free clothing, she suddenly had a part time job that payed not enought to disqualify us for the rest. We got gas vouchers, a free cell phone. I calculated that we were getting about $2000 a month in “free” Stuff. Now I will say that we justified all this by saying we had paid for it all many times over already through our taxes over the years and we did pay a pile of money in taxes.
      We are off all this now because of some surprising delayed benefits from my previous Jobs.

      The point I am making is that the workers in the “system” literally push everything they can at you. It justifies thier jobs AND it makes you a ward of the state, and they hope you vote for the socialist way of life.

      While I do think you need to ask for help when you are destitute and desprite. Get away from it as fast as you can when you can. There is no such thing as a free lunch but there is still slavery in the US.

      Humbly,,,, Carl

      Reply
      • Jason February 6, 2012, 8:07 pm

        Good one Carl – can relate.

        Reply
  • GoneWithTheWind January 20, 2012, 11:23 am

    The amount of money a welfare recipient gets would astound you. There are over 2000 different programs hidden in 5 different cabinet level departments that funnel money into welfare. A single mother with 2 kids can easily exceed $40,000 in cash and benefits a year, and YOU pay for that.

    I would suggest a “cap” on welfare. Something like no more then what a working person earning the minimum wage could earn. That would be about $18,500 a year.

    Reply
  • Anonymous January 20, 2012, 11:34 am

    Yes some of this group will be a problem temporarily but the state will have the addresses of these people and they will be among the first to be relocated in the massive (FEMA)camps the others are survivors and will scrounge and hunt just like the rest of us

    Reply
    • KC January 20, 2012, 8:40 pm

      Anonymous-

      Hate to break your bubble, however since those who are on and will continue to be on massive levels of public assistance are compliant to their government masters, the chances of them being rounded-up and moved anywhere are practically nil, while the government security apparatus exists. Those who the government masters will attempt to round-up and place into those facilities you’ve mentioned are the second group who will make the attempt to scrounge and hunt, however they will become the core of resistance to the government masters and their non-sustainable system. But relocation of the complaint to remote facilities would be unlikely when a semi-competent security force could just cordon a housing block and keep the compliant inside for the foreseeable future (See the Warsaw Ghetto or the Battle of Fallujah for details).

      Reply
  • Jason January 20, 2012, 11:36 am

    True story #1 –

    About a 4 months ago I was at my local Target store & saw this guy holding a cardboard sign that said “Out of work painter with 30 years experience needs work”. His wife sat next to him knitting & their 3 kids (roughly 8-12) sitting in beach chairs. A week or so later, I saw them again in the same set up.

    A few weeks later I was at Target parking my car in the middle of the lot, sandwiched between other cars & noticed the painter walking to his favorite corner (a good 200 yards away). Then I saw the rest of the family unloading the chairs from their brand new Chevy, paper plates in all. I was so shocked and quite frankly in disbelief at that sight, that it took me a few minutes to process it.

    On my way out of the parking lot I pulled over asked the guy is this his idea of having others make the payments on his new car? He looked at me with the “I just got busted” look on his face, & walked back to his spot.

    I cruised by a week later & he was no longer there.

    True story #2 –

    When I was 21 I was on Medical, Welfare & Food Stamps. I had a bad accident with my knee that required reconstructive surgery. No insurance, lost my job/career choice forever & my parents refused to help me which, became the biggest blessing in my life, though I hated them initially for it … yea, I felt they owed me ie – entitled baby. This was 1975.

    I had no place to go, need help & went to the Welfare office in San Pedro, Ca. to apply for aid, thinking this was a good gig for free money – what a great country! True thought.

    I went inside & it was a culture shock that I’ve never forgotten – the room was filled with about 70 people, 100% able bodied black people & me, Mr. Paleface in the mix. I sat for an hour or so waiting my turn & felt like a real dope that I was trying to “work” the system & could get away with it.

    After my knee rehabbed, I got off it as fast as I could & started down my new career path that eventually lead me to what I do today. I framed & saved a $1 Food Coupon put in my office as a reminder & motivation. My parents did the right thing helping me find my own way.

    To address your title question, I’ll use an old, crude joke to illustrate my point …

    Why does a dog lick his balls? Because he can.

    (Or maybe I should paraphrase Obama – “yes he can!”)

    It is my opinion that we take away Americans ability to being mentally strong & productive with these Federal aid programs – it only serves to enables weakness.

    Most times when you get something for free there is an associated, hidden price to pay.

    Reply
  • gat31 January 20, 2012, 11:44 am

    Pouring water out for the bottles? That’s nothing. We had people buying live lobsters and selling them on the side of the road. I think there will always be users and abusers of any system. I know of a family that literally the apartment complex where they lived had to cut her a check for the difference of her rent and the money she was “entitled” to by the government. That was not including her govt phone, food stamps, and every other possible benefit she qualified for. Abuses happen. Will they survive if they got “cut off?” My outlook is yes. However, not before getting angry, possibly violent, and then using the “whoa is me” to tug on the heart strings of neighbors and churches.
    When l lost my job in 08, l was devastated. Being a single parent, there was no back up program or income so l went on unemployment. l received 1 check before l was back to work. I took a job making waaay less than unemployment but l didn’t care l was working. Food stamps are a wonderful thing when you are between jobs or it’s slow season and you need them. But l agree with the assessment of not making them so easy to mainline so people will not run to them instead of running to job hunt.The first time l had to get on them l had just had my 2nd child and my husband got layed off. Back then you could only go certain days of the month, stand in a long line, then go to the window to get your colored paper. Man l hated that. l would see people there who were like me just needed a little extra to get through and then see the ones with the jewelry and the nails and the fancy hair-do’s and wonder why they were there.
    Right now l make the least amount of money l have ever made, but the difference this time is l have changed my mindset on how to do more with less and to prepare for these leaner times as l think many will have to do to survive. Those who can’t or won’t learn will be the biggest threat.

    Reply
  • Templar January 20, 2012, 11:45 am

    Couldn’t have said it any better than Odd Questioner, who hit it on the head. The professional scammers WILL go bonkers. I’m a police officer; I already know who these parasites are. We’ve pre-identified the folks who will actually need (deserve) help, and the ones who’ll give us the most grief. Until our own paychecks stop, and then they’re on their own; we’ve got our families to “serve & protect”, too.

    Reply
  • Satori January 20, 2012, 12:02 pm

    what is the bigger threat?
    food stamp fraud
    or
    companies like Bechtel and Halliburton
    that regularly defraud the taxpayer of hundreds of millions ???

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/20/food-stamps_n_1218248.html

    Reply
    • Jason January 20, 2012, 1:12 pm

      Isn’t that a silly question … Bechtel and Halliburton of course!! Good call Satori.

      A very good friend of mine worked for Bechtel many years ago & told me of the corruption from first hand knowledge. He was nearly killed a couple of times & gracefully bowed out at a very early age. He was a prodigy who graduated from a prestigious tech school with a degree in advanced mathematics at the age of 19 & was recruited by Bechtel. The math for his job wasn’t related to his degree …

      When the Twin Towers were attacked on 911 it became a big deal in the news that NYC was going to take care of their own in an act of loyalty & solidarity and clean the site for rebuilding. I was speaking to my friend & he said, watch the news – Bechtel will be doing the job because he heard from his inside friends in advance plus he said there was some incredibly sensitive stuff in the bowels of those buildings that cannot be made public

      I argued with him & said NYC would never let that happen, they take no SHTF or orders from anybody! He said – watch & wait – it will be news in a few weeks. He was right …

      http://old.911digitalarchive.org/crr/documents/1427.pdf

      Reply
  • Old School January 20, 2012, 12:27 pm

    Wow, I thought I was the only person resentful of the permanent government dependent class, a.k.a: the FSA (Free S**t Army). Odd Questioner hit the nail on the head- these people are something to worry about. For one thing, they, or their relatives/offspring, are already stealing our cars, our unsecured lawnmowers, our copper wiring at the church, etc. They will only become more aggressive as the free money runs out until you have to stand an armed guard on your property 24/7 just to keep what you have. It is happening to us right now- my wife accosted a man stealing cement blocks from us just this past Sunday, in broad freaking daylight. Cement blocks! He is one of our wonderful neighbors that has no job except theft & dealing in meth…

    They will aslo willingly become foot soldiers for any thug gang that promises them a share of the loot when TSHTF.

    I lost my good hospital job in 2009, and because I refuse to hop around the country for a job, I am unable to get another in a hospital. After 12 months all of our savings, 401k, food stores, everything was gone. So onto unemployment I went. After some time a fellow church person hired me to work for his EMS company part time. Problem was it would cost me $650 to go to EMT school and get certified. I approached the state unemployment person about getting some of the “job retraining” money that Comrade Obama keeps bragging about for my EMT class. The guy looked around the room real nervous and then answered “you’re not the right kind of person who would get that money”. I asked what kind of person I had to be, and all he did was look around the unemployment office again. I looked around and noted that 99% of the customers were black. He gave me a knowing look and then said “you can apply, and go to an all-day orientation seminar, but you won’t get approved”. After paying tens of thousands of dollars in taxes for 24+ years that is what I got from the system.

    I paid for the course myself while working part time for $8 an hour. I now make $10 and hour, about 1/4 what I made in a hospital, and we really struggle; but you could not drag me into government assistance of any knd with a gun to my head.

    Reply
  • Phillip January 20, 2012, 12:39 pm

    I think foodstamps should be done away with for todays modern society. I believe we need to go back to soup kitchens. Have them open at local schools. Then maybe people will feel so demoralized that they go get a job instead of being lazy bums. Maybe only offer the current EBT card to those that have been on foodstamps for less than 6 months.

    Here is a great video of how the system is abused. Thanks to Judge Judy for bringing it to our attention: http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=15915

    Reply
  • Michael January 20, 2012, 1:24 pm

    We give out way more money in corporate welfare than we do in social welfare. We also let giant corporations despoil the land, water, and air and then come in behind them and clean up their messes at tax payer expense (and pay it in cancer, asthma, and the like) . If you want to look at an entitled class look at some of the wealthiest among us.

    Mitt Romney does no real work, get paid millions, and pays 15% in Taxes (on what he hasn’t hid in offshore accounts) while my garbage man works is ass off for 35K and pays 25%? That’s messed up.

    Yes, there’s abuse that needs cleaned up, but it’s not just the folks at the bottom of the pile abusing social welfare where the changes need to happen.

    The other thing to think about is that many of those who abuse social welfare aren’t going to go out and get real jobs if you cut them off. It’s a madding form of blackmail, but it’s cheaper and easier to hand them a check then to have to deal with them breaking into garages, cooking meth, and engaging in prostitution.

    Reply
    • Jason January 20, 2012, 3:50 pm

      1. Your garbage man needs to run for office & get elected!

      2. We need a flat sales tax & do away from the IRS system. This way the welfare people, drug dealers, pimps, politicians (I guess they could be included in the previous 3) all contribute equally.

      Reply
      • Michael January 20, 2012, 4:05 pm

        “1. Your garbage man needs to run for office & get elected!”

        He’d probably do a better job then my current congressman.

        I’m not a flat taxer, but I would like to see all deductions done away with. Maintaining roads is incredibly expensive and we give someone a deduction for owning a house out in the burbs a million miles from where they work? Hell, we ought to charge everyone that lives more than 10 miles from work a surcharge to help pay for the roads they’re using and the air they’re fouling.

        Reply
        • sam January 21, 2012, 12:01 am

          hear, hear!!!!

          Reply
        • Barb January 22, 2012, 7:34 am

          Charge those who live more than 10 miles from where they work?Really?
          My husband is a heavy equipment operator, his job sites change often, so you think we should pay more or do what-live in a trailer on the job?
          I work in a neighboring town, the town I live in is small and jobs are scarce-so what should I do? We own our home and we are on time with our payments on everything, mainly because we work hard and take the jobs that are available.
          Think before you say things! Most people would like to work close to home, but it isn’t always possible to do so.

          Reply
          • Michael January 22, 2012, 8:17 pm

            “Charge those who live more than 10 miles from where they work?Really?”

            No not really, that was meant somewhat tongue and cheek. I was just pointing out that we’re giving out a tax break for something that costs us as a society a hell of a lot of money.

  • j.r. guerra in s. tx. January 20, 2012, 1:43 pm

    I think our Nanny government is being abused and if the government checks stop being sent, chaos will ensue very quickly. Not just the welfare class – the Social Security recipients who depend on that check for medication or housing needs for example. The farmers who get a subsidy check, allowing them to pay for that farm equipment that breaks down at very inconvenient times.

    Et cetera, et cetera.

    Reply
    • Michael January 20, 2012, 4:01 pm

      I have relatives that get government subsidy checks every year for their corn and soybeans in Wisconsin, who live in Florida and have never farmed a day in their lives. They just happen to own land that gets rented out to a guy who grows corn and soy on it and they split the check with him. Pretty nice gig, getting paid without working.

      Reply
  • Mechanic43 January 20, 2012, 2:00 pm

    People on foodstamps should be able to buy the same items as people on W.I.C. They don’t need coke, chips, twinkies and steak…they can survive on cereal, cheese and milk. And if they want fresh veggies they can buy seeds and grow them. These people are going to unspool if their free ride is gone, they have no idea how to take care of themselves. My comments are not pointed at the folks who lost their job and needed a hand, but rather folks that actually see welfare as a way of life.

    Reply
  • T.R. January 20, 2012, 3:46 pm

    I dont think its going to be any factor at all , If things got that bad , EVERYBODY who is not prepared is going to be doing this one way or another . In fact , WE are going to be doing this when our preps run out , and they always run out . The number of people , even among us that can be totally self supporting is very small . Lets hope it doesnt come , because if it does , its going to be ugly . Those that are set up to be self supporting may be forced to leave or be killed at some point , then they too may find themselves in the situation . Not a pretty picture .

    Reply
    • T.R. January 20, 2012, 3:54 pm

      The word Militia has been perverted in modern times to what it really is and was meant to be . Our forefathers intended for every state to maintain a local militia for protection of the people . If this were still in place today , every state could maintain law and order even without a central government as was how it was intended .

      Reply
  • Really January 20, 2012, 7:52 pm

    I love how people get distracted by such a minor problem. It is disgusting when people get food stamps to feed their kids and sell them for cigs, alcohol, or drugs. Most food stamp recipients don’t do that. Most don’t even sell them, but I have known of a few who have done so with good intentions. Most people don’t get the extreme help that some here have mentioned. We were completely out of work for 6 months and with zero income and zero resources we received $500 in food stamps and $300 in cash in addition to Medicaid. Our monthly bills were $800 and we did not have cable, Internet, and had one cell phone that we shared which was cheaper then a home phone. We were fortunate enough too have help. If someone can live off $300 in food stamps and get a hundred bucks to pay for car insurance or diapers I don’t fault them one bit.

    Even if a mooch got $40,000 a year in benefits every year for 50 years they would receive $2 million in benefits. How much goes to corporate welfare each year? A whole hell of a lot more than $2 million!!! Why do we only hear so many self-righteous right wingers berating the social welfare abuses (few) and so few berating corporate welfare abuses (so so many)? Most of them aren’t rich enough to benefit from it and knowingly never will be so it isn’t some form of self-preservation. It is the same reason so many sheeple trust Obama; STUPIDITY! They are just ignorant sheep following different wolves in shepherds clothing.

    And please don’t give me that “they create jobs” bull. The tax obligations of the rich (corporate and individual alike) correlate to the overall economy. Tax the rich high many do well. Take away those obligations and many do poorly.

    People like to treat capitalism as the only moral form of economy when in fact in it’s purest form it is completely immoral. It is a trait if a sociopath to be willing to let others starve (or even just have an insufficient amount of food) just so that you can potentially gain more wealth. I know some won’t work hard in a socialized setting but those are the ones who would be willing to commit crimes in order to avoid working in a full fledged free market economy.

    I am reading the book 1491 and found out an interesting fact about the Incas. By modern standards they would be considered socialist. They also appear to be the only society to ever eliminate hunger completely from their society. They didn’t have a form of money. Each region provided the things that sustained life (on a somewhat pleasant standard of living for the time) that could be found in their region and in return received the things the other regions provided.

    I am not saying we need to eleminate capitalism entirely. I am just saying that we need to be more concerned with those in need rather than those who have plenty.

    BTW, I make about $30k a year and if your garbage truck driver has even 1 kid he is not paying 25% in taxes unless he has a horrible accountant. I have 20% come out of my paycheck which totals about $6k a year. I get about $4k back. $2k isn’t 25% of $30K. The people who get shafted are the ones making between $150k and $300k. 35% out and nothing back sucks, but at least at the end of their paycheck they can live a decent life off of it.

    Reply
    • sam January 20, 2012, 11:58 pm

      hear, hear!!!! preach it!

      these self-righteous biddies need to pipe down.

      Reply
    • selfRightousBiddy January 21, 2012, 4:34 pm

      The congressmen from farming states do indeed earmark money in to farm programs. Call it corporate welfare if it tingles your leg. The government wants to tell farmers what to do, what they can plant, how much and what they can’t plant. To do this they set up programs to pay them for not planting or for planting less of one crop and more of another. All under the guise of making sure we keep food in our supermarkets. Right or wrong if they are going to tell farmers what to do it is only fair they pay the farmers to do it.
      But I am betting you are clueless about corporate welfare and are just regurgitating the Democrat talking points. Show me some corporate welfare!! Give it to me I can take it. And don’t confuse paying lower taxes with welfare. Show me some corporate welfare. I’m betting it will be pure BS and right out of the Socialist Democrat playbook.

      Reply
  • Me Pie January 20, 2012, 8:42 pm

    Many years ago I was a social worker and witnessed first hand the generational abuse of the system. In my opinion it’s worse now. I’ve also had some major economic downturns in my married life but luckily never had to get government assistance. My biggest irritant is young people having kids and totally depending on the welfare system for pre-natal care, peri-natal care, post-natal care and on and on until those kids themselves are having kids. If the kids are lucky the grandparents will step in and give the grand kids some kind of stability. But usually from what I’ve seen the cycle just repeats itself.

    Reply
  • sam January 20, 2012, 11:54 pm

    there are scavengers in every ecosystem. why would anyone expect differently in our sanitized, contemporary “society?” so, go ahead, laugh and point all you want, but the fact of the matter is that these folks, though lacking in skills that “pleasant society” finds acceptable, are highly adaptive. they’ve figured out a way to survive without having to take orders from some undeserving peon at work. they’ve survived without having to kiss ass. they have all day to relax and do as they wish.

    complaints like this are the funniest pot-kettle situations that i can read about. debt-slaves and wage-slaves are actually complaining about how welfare recipients are enslaved by the system. you all want to chastise them for taking off jewelry before appointments, while you so-called “normal” folks do similarly funny stuff like kiss the bosses ass and lie through your teeth to make sales quotas. HILARIOUS!!!

    remove the plank from your own eyes before you have a fit about the speck in the eyes of the welfare queens.

    Reply
    • Jason January 21, 2012, 12:54 am

      Sam,

      One group is productive, the other isn’t.

      One group adds to the betterment of mankind, the other stifles progress.

      Since one group pays taxes that supplies 100% of the revenue for these dregs & drags of society, they are well within their rights to complain vigorously. Also, as you so wrongly pointed out then proved, these people do have skills albeit highly misplaced as they steal from the other group.

      The delineation is quite clear.

      Your plank analogy is out of context.

      BTW, the dregs do kiss ass – at the Welfare office.

      Reply
  • Had Enuff January 21, 2012, 8:26 am

    What really yanks my chain in the entitlement fiasco is the fact that now our dear leader and his minions in Washington describe Social Security as an entitlement. As someone who has worked all of my life and put money faithfully into a ponzi scheme week after week only to be told it is an entitlement? At worse it is a pay as you go ponzi triangle. At best it is an involuntary savings plan that these shysters in DC have forced upon us. I would settle for them to give me what I have put into it with quantitative easing inflated money. I used to think our nation had representatives elected to better the nation and its people.I have since awoken and now understand that we place jackals and hyenas into power only to rape our nation and consolidate power. King jackal has upped the anty so high on food stamps and welfare that I am convinced when this house of cards fall hunger and misery will drive the fools who rely on these plans to riot ,kill steal, and cause a disintegration of our nation unseen since Rome was sacked by the barbarians in 476a.d. Why do I see this? Look at all the tactical systems being distributed to local law enforcement agencies. Then get a good read of the NDAA passed a couple weeks ago. Folks , we are now the enemy and the police and military will treat us as such. Please PREPARE the best you can, the road we have traveled is full of danger from the people we entrusted to protect us.

    Reply
    • Really January 21, 2012, 9:37 am

      What you fail to take into consideration is that all if those riots you fear are kept abay because of things like food stamps, SSI, Medicaid, TANF, etc…

      In my area the real unemployment rate is probably close to 25% if not higher. That is, if you include those who don’t qualify to unemployment pay. You know the people who have searched for work so long that they no longer qualify or who were self-employed and therefore ineligible in the first place or recent graduates (highschool or college) who have yet to find work. I’m sure the number would reach over 50% if you include those who make less than $20K a year which is the bare minimum one could survive on (with no kids or near free childcare) around here. That would mean roughly 350,000 people who would be living in near third world conditions without programs like food stamps. The number would be drastically higher if those same people had to provide for their elderly parents who would not have SSI in a libertarians dream world.

      A good chunk of those people would adapt and just keep chugging. Many would do whatever they had to to get food for their families. People who have $$$ in South America often do their best to hide it. Do you know why? Because the starving masses won’t mind killing them for it.

      With the campaign that all politicians have against the middle class we are heading toward an economy that resembles Ancient Rome or Mexico; a few rich and a lot of poverty. Ancient Rome had a generally non-rioting population for most of it’s history. Do you know why? Because thanks to government programs they had food in their bellies and were entertained enough to be distracted from the unfair distribution of wealth. (Which by the way was similar to today in that most of the wealthy were descendants from wealth.) in Mexico, as just one example, they don’t take care of the millions living in poverty so many have taken to the drug trade to survive. In the Middle East and Africa many have taken to overthrow (sometimes violently so) of the government. You want to live in Mexico or one of the Arab Spring countries take away all of those “entitlement” programs n

      BTW wouldn’t SSI, Medicare, and Unemployment be the only “entitlement” programs? Since you are actually entitled to those programs once you are qualified? Would the others be a “benefit” program or something along those lines? Just saying.

      Reply
      • T.R. January 22, 2012, 7:33 pm

        The most scary thing about a prolonged economic disaster is the fact that it gives rise to people who under normal circumstances would have been laughed off his soap box . Adolph Hitler is a good example . When people have nothing …………. they have nothing to loose .

        Reply
    • Michael January 21, 2012, 2:18 pm

      “What really yanks my chain in the entitlement fiasco is the fact that now our dear leader and his minions in Washington describe Social Security as an entitlement.”

      SSI is an entitlement program, in that you’re entitled to that income by law. That’s all that the word “entitlement ” means in that context, that there’s laws saying that when you’re 65 (I think it’s 65 right now) that you’re entitled to income from SSI.

      Reply
      • GoneWithTheWind January 21, 2012, 4:41 pm

        First of all it is NOT SSI. It is social security! Two different programs. Secondly you don’t get it. SS is paid for by the recipients. What he is saying “yanks his chain” is the media calls SS an entitlement program and never mentions welfare which IS an entitlement program. We pay/paid for SS The federal government has borrowed money from the SS system to the tune of about $4 trillion. It is not running out of money or bankrupt and it is fully 100% self supporting. The recipients of welfare (usually) paid nothing into it and it is exactly what is bankrupting our country. The federal cost of all welfare is in excess of $1.2 trillion a year (more since the Obama recession started). It all comes from taxpayers/workers. YOU pay for the bums and welfare cheats to smoke dope and shoot drugs while pushout little welfare babies and new citizens. WELFARE is what is screwing us and the bimbo’s on the news channels call SS a entitlement program!!! Give me a break!!

        Reply
        • Jason January 21, 2012, 4:58 pm

          Aaahhhhhhhhhhh – run for the hills!!!! Or maybe run for office …

          Reply
        • Michael January 22, 2012, 8:27 pm

          Oops, SSI is Supplemental Security Income, which is for disabled folks. I work with disabled folks and tend to mix the two up.

          From Wikipedia:
          An entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits based on established rights or by legislation.

          Both SS and SSI are entitlements.

          Reply
          • T.R. January 23, 2012, 12:35 am

            I have no problem paying into Social Security if it was used how it was intended , which was a supplement for every citizen to have when they get too old to work . I think in that aspect its a mark of civilization and pride in your culture and greatness of your nation . Not to think about the elderly shows lack of evolution . Its when they turn into more than what was intended and a way of life to those that are able bodied is where the problem is . Even the Romans had some rewards for a lifetime of service , one being a discharged roman soldier didnt have to pay taxes and was granted full citizenship ( in those days , that meant something )

  • Jason January 21, 2012, 12:28 pm

    That’s paranoia nonsense.

    Citizens out number “them” 100,000 fold & they know it. If & that is a gigantic if, there was ever a revolt by the people, the militia would lose. As I pointed out earlier, the colonists did it against a vastly superior & technologically advanced army & the citizens are far better off today not to mention greater in number. The logistics alone is impossible.

    It would be an impossible task to try to get the militia to take over, the worldwide pressure, economic implications to the D.C. crew, media pressure, to name a few would keep it from becoming any measure of
    reality.

    Reply
    • Anonymous January 21, 2012, 1:16 pm

      I never realized common folk have access to all the modern trappings of warfare Jason. You know Air superiority, tanks smart munitions. They have tactics and toys commonly called force multipliers that can erase the scenerio of your 1000000 to 1 ratio. good luck getting that amount of common folk peeled away from the boob tube or pc.I did not realize you are capable of taking on a marine squad or a law enforcement tactical squad. Perhaps you and your good ol boy buddies can and good luck with that. I would much r rather look at what is developing and make a honest assessment of what is taking place than live in a fantasy assessment like you are . Any foreign pressure Jason would involve more troops most likely UN blue hats. And get your nomenclature correct too as well. Militia is citizen based military response organization. A Constitutional based militia, which I belong to one is no where equipped to handle the US armed forces. Military is the well equipped and trained pros who have all the toys that would do some serious ass kicking. Military personal take an oath to defend the Constitution. I would hope they would honor that oath.

      Reply
      • Jason January 21, 2012, 4:54 pm

        I can see it now, X years from today – F18’s dropping napalm in Denver, tanks rolling down main street, Black Hawk strafing runs while dropping leaflets on a poor dejected population, millions upon millions being marched to the gulags in Texas by the “military” (thanks for the correction, tho you got my point) & let’s see, what other fantasies can we conjure up …. how about Obama grows a mustache the width of his nose to complete the picture. Yes, silly me, this is a possibility.

        Honor the constitution, well that is an interesting point – maybe you can enlighten me as to where it identifies its citizens as the threat & to the point of extermination or jackbooting into submission. And don’t try to feed me the BS of “all enemies foreign & domestic” bit because if that was really enforceable, the demonstrations of the 60’s would have ended in hundreds of thousands of body bags. Then there is OWS demonstrations, blog writers, CNN, Fox News, hell what about the Marines who were filmed pissing on the dead Iraqis? How about NYC cabbies who flip you off? Gee, where does it stop … or better yet, start?

        Take what you consider an honest ASSessment & prepare accordingly – should be interesting exercise in paranoia. Incidentally, what would that preparation look like? I guess standing by, wringing your hands while extrapolating future events because of the sensationalist views of the likes of Alex Jones may be an answer … that is the sensible approach.

        Yea, and everything in the National Enquirer is true too …

        Reply
        • Anonymous January 21, 2012, 10:09 pm

          The America of the 60s would not have legal standing to detain and terminate as allowed in the NDAA, though Kent state gave us all a glimpse of what could happen. As far as tossing the Marines in your trollish diatribe I am sorry the golden shower you were wishing for was given to the dead taliban .Maybe you will get lucky next time and receive one. It is pretty obvious you have never been in a war situation. I have. War is hell. But war , civil detention and violence is the first steps taken to quell civil unrest. If you think it can never happen here troll you are only fooling yourself. It has happened to many nations and has been repeated throughout the ages and is going on again world wide. Scrolling back and looking at your replies and remarks shows you to be a belittling know it all . These boards are for exchange of ideas and discussion, but all too often are hijacked by impotents like you who have no game. I am done with you. Go fantasize about your urinating marines. Thats my ASS essment of you jerk.

          Reply
    • T.R. January 22, 2012, 7:45 pm

      Actually , they would have lost if it wasn’t for the French . They really couldnt afford to divert the manpower and equipment from other areas of the british empire to crush it . We give ourselves way too much credit . They simply had bigger fish to fry . I agree tho , in todays situation , the world opinion would turn against the government . The economic sanctions alone would destroy them , not to mention foreign aid to supply the rebels , Im thinking Russia for sure , perhaps china …………. europe only if the government pissed them off enough . The supply route would most likely be the same one WE used to supply the russians in WW2 through Alaska .Our southern border is a joke , so that would be an easy route as well .

      Reply
  • Anonymous January 21, 2012, 3:28 pm

    There is no charity, that I know of, which provides to the American poor what Soc. Security provides — especially in terms of reliability.

    After all, why would a charity exist to perform a function that the Federal Government has usurped?

    Therefore, what welfare, disability, and food stamps do is eliminate charity.

    It is my understanding that individual salvation is achieved only through faith AND good works.

    In large part, “good works” is charity.

    If the Federal Govt. takes away charity to the American poor or disabled and replaces it with outright theft, has it not also stolen the opportunity for individuals to be truly charitable — and, thus, attain their rightful eternal reward?

    That is, if the money FORCIBLY TAKEN from you to give to the “needy”, were instead returned to you, you would then have the CHOICE to spend or save that money for yourself OR to give it to the “needy” (as determined by YOU, rather than a govt bureaucrat)FREELY AND CHARITABLY.

    The government, then, has stolen more than merely your money; it has stolen away from you the choice — the opportunity — to be charitable with that money.

    If men will be eternally judged according to their good works (i.e., charity); then, your account/ledger of good works will be light when you reach the pearly gates. This, due to the action of the government in setting up welfare, disability, food stamps, etc.

    In other words, the Federal Government is stealing more than your earthly wealth by virtue of these programs. They are stealing your soul.

    Reply
    • Really January 21, 2012, 6:47 pm

      This may have been thee dumbest thing I have ever heard! If God is all knowing then he would recognize what your true limits are. If you did what you could with what you have. My guess is that this is just an excuse to justify why you claim charity is important, but don’t give because you are selfish. If you have limited financial resources you can always volunteer your time. BTW I make $30k and find some money on a regular basis to share with others and we volunteer.

      I’m much more concerned that the goverment spends $$$ they tax me for to murder children in Iran and Afghanistan or any where else where poor brown kids are politically expendable.

      Reply
      • Uriel January 22, 2012, 11:02 am

        So, the idea that government welfare is not charity, but actually displaces charity, is the dumbest thing you’ve ever heard.

        Oh, and U.S. troops are murderers …. of children.

        Does that sufficiently sum up your position?

        Reply
        • Really January 22, 2012, 11:45 am

          The dumbest thing I ever heard was the claim that somehow by having to pay taxes you will not have salvation because you can’t give to charity. Jesus paid taxes to Rome who spend a large sum of that money on food subsidies for the poor. He seems to have done okay in the salvation department.

          And yes US soldiers have been being used to murder children in Iraq and Afghanistan. If someone came into your town and shot your child or dropped a bomb that killed your child because they disagree with the ideals and actions of your government you would call them murderers. Having an American flag sewed onto a uniform does not ok murder make. Government sanctioned murder is still murder. And please don’t give me a bs excuse about fighting for freedom because Iraq was never a threat to American freedom and America’s ally Saudi Arabia is much more oppressive then Iraq was.

          Following orders isn’t an excuse either. That just makes you a hitman for hire for the worlds most powerful mafia.

          Reply
          • Jason January 22, 2012, 3:26 pm

            As far as the innocent dying, it is not that they necessarily disagreed with “our” way of life, they were caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Death by that means can create much bitterness regardless of who delivers the fatal blow(s).

            It’s a sad fact that in war, innocent people always die.

          • Uriel January 22, 2012, 9:37 pm

            Just wanted to make sure I had you right, scumbag.

            My 1st post here was last week, my last post is this one.

            I clearly made a mistake in thinking there were something like patriots here.

            Adieu.

  • irishdutchuncle January 21, 2012, 6:18 pm

    “crippling the U.S.” is the entire point. it’s called the “Cloward-Piven” strategy. sign up everyone, for every benefit to which he is “entitled” and bring down “the system”…

    “power to the people!” right arm!

    Reply
  • Michael January 22, 2012, 8:41 pm

    “Is Our Entitlement Nation Crippling Us?”

    I guess for me, the short answer would be: yes, but social welfare spending is only a very small part of our Our Entitlement Nation (love the name) and probably one of the least crippling elements of it.

    Reply
    • Jason January 23, 2012, 12:39 pm

      I do not like the name “Our Entitlement Nation” because it has no solution in mind & is kind of a “fait accompli” mindset. I guess poking fun at our inadequacies is vogue today but will never advance a solution, only keeps things distracted & stuck in muck & mire.

      Granted there is some validity to that name & has been abused by many but, as several have identified here (including myself), they have been the recipient & were able to get helped by this great nation when they were down in the chips.

      Reply
  • Really January 23, 2012, 8:48 am

    Jason,
    Then how can we be mad at Al Queada for killing innocent people. They consider themselves at war with the US? If the US claims to be better then the despot governments they invade shouldn’t they behave better? Everyone of us who saw a foreign soldier kick down our front door and advance toward our family would give him a gift of lead. Everyone else here would then commend us and have no pity for the foreign soldier. US soldiers have been passively invading the Middle East for decades and openly and aggressively for the past decade at the cost of countless lives. So many preppers now hate Arabs for fighting back. If someone set off a bomb in a shopping center with the target being the military recruiting office and in the process killed a dozen people next door at the Pottery Barn they would be charged with murder even if their country sanctioned the action. The US drops a bomb on a village in Iraq and the non-military personell who die are just “collateral damage”? It may be how every other country views it, but where’s the moral high ground? Killing innocent people is murder. Going into someone else’s house and killing them because they have a gun pointing back at the person breaking into their home is murder unless you can emphatically prove that this person was guilty of a very serious crime. And no killing a foreign soldier who just kicked down your door is not murder it is self defense.

    The 9-11 terrorists were murderers fighting a war for their religion. Any soldier who intentionally does something knowing that it may take an innocent life are murderers fighting a war for their governments political ambitions. The soldiers who shot Osama were not murderers for killing him no more then police officers are wrong for shooting a known murderer in an attempt to arrest him. Any people who lived with him and fought back knew they were defending a murderer so they were committing a crime and the soldiers were not wrong for defending themselves. The same goes for any known terrorist or even one with enough evidence to issue a “warrant”. Going door to door fighting anyone armed is likely going to involve at least some murder. Read an article on CNN a month or so back about a soldier who PTSD from situations like “having” to kill a small girl who wandered upon him while he was spying on a military encampment gaining intelligence so they could bomb this military base full of soldiers. He didn’t have to kill her but he valued his mission for his country enough to murder a small girl. That isn’t the first story like that to come out of these wars and the government condones those actions because the mission matters more than human life.

    I dont believe most soldiers are bad people even the ones who did things like I just mentioned. I believe most of them are fighting for their lives because their government put them in a situation where they may have to decide between a child’s live and their own. They can’t not go because they will get court marshaled and be treated like a coward and/or traitor by their family and friends. I hope to see more soldiers stand up for what is right and choose the difficult situation that is refusing to go and avoid having to choose between murdering an innocent (especially children) or dying.

    To Urial,

    I feel it encumbered upon me to clarify that I give my opinions not those of this website or most of it’s followers. I guarantee most here don agree with me. They likely view me as a traitor for refusing to adopt the view that it is good (or even acceptable) to invade another country with all the “collateral” entailed including the death of US soldiers many of whom died for a cause they didn’t believe in because the military was seen as the only way to pay for college and get a better life.

    If, however, you can’t handle a dissenting view I recommend shutting off your Internet and listening to Limbaugh and Beck 24-7. They are 100% supportive of poor young men dying so rich men can become richer. Maybe you can spice it up with some of these “preachers” who claim to follow Jesus yet advocate greed and hate which is the exact opposite of what Jesus taught.

    I’m a scumbag for believing that murder is wrong? I’m cool with that. I’ve talked several young people out of putting themselves in danger of murdering innocents or dying themselves and doing something like that always gains you a few enemies. I have been hit by those “fighting for freedom” for exercising said “freedom” enough that I have washed my blood off my face more than a few times, but face blood washes easier then blood on your hands.

    BTW, you wanna know how I talked them out of it. I showed them stories of people who were dealing with the stress of killing innocent people and showed them pictures of wounded and dead soldiers from news articles. I told them to think about what they may have to do or give up and why they were taking that risk. I told them if they believed that having the cloud of killing innocent people over them their whole life or being dead was worth it for their reason for fighting to do what they felt was best. If not don’t go. None of them could find a valid reason to do so because they haven’t been so brainwashed as to believe that fighting for the US makes everything they do is noble. I am proud to say none of my former students ever pissed on a dead body.

    Reply
    • Jason January 23, 2012, 9:06 pm

      Had a good response for you but assume it got removed because of my ending comment to Uriel, Ariel, Urethra or whatever his name was …

      Bottom line is it was in the same vein as Gone With The Wind except more elegantly put! Ha, ha.

      Reply
      • Jason January 23, 2012, 11:52 pm

        Disregard the above – the response with which I was referring magically appeared – very strange …

        Reply
    • Johnny on the spot January 24, 2012, 3:31 am

      Not to detract from this epic post any further, but my .02.

      I had this long response ready to go, but I’ll save it. Suffice to say, we never broke into anyone’s house. We reacted to intel and 99% of the time were met with hostility. Of this 99%, I’d wager that only 20% of the “hostiles” were locals. Most of the buildings we secured belonged to families that were either driven out or killed by “insurgents”.

      To call us murderers is asinine at best…and although I do not wholeheartedly agree with your opinion, I do so defend to the death, your right to have it.

      Have a blessed day

      Reply
      • really January 24, 2012, 9:59 am

        I thought I clarified this, but I will do so to make certain.

        If you did something knowing that an innocent person may very likely die because of your action you are a murderer. The best example of this would be dropping a bomb.

        If you are doing what is basically a police action (such as attempting to arrest a known terrorist) and you are received with violence then you are not a murderer any more then a cop is who encounters the same situation.

        I don’t view an insurgent as a terrorist just because he is an insurgent. They are doing what most here would do; protecting their country, town, and/or home from foreign invaders. I imagine that if a foreign army was searching for “insurgents” in America they would likely meet with resistance in 99% of incidents as well. Western media would call them patriots. If your logic is followed I deserve to die if I defend my home from an intruder because that is basically what the US was in Iraq (boundaries were crossed in Affhanistan but at least there was some logic behind an invasion there).

        Reply
      • Jason January 24, 2012, 10:56 am

        Really,

        I agree with Johnny on the spot & will emphasize it is combat & yes, I support the Johnny on the spots. The “why” we are there is not up for debate as is with the soldiers. They are given a job & educated as to how to do it with rules that the enemy would never consider incorporating.

        What many do is take things out of that context. Intel is state of the art, the citizenry knows what’s up yet, chooses to stay? Sacrificial lambs served to the western media? Remember, these people still have a 4th century mindset.

        IED’s planted then triggered is not defending your home, it is a pure act of aggression. Are our soldiers supposed to chase those little rabbits until they run into the safety of a mosque & turn to each other & say: ah, shucks – we missed them, well … better go back and collect what’s left of Sgt. Smith?

        How about the roof top insurgent sniper who is intentionally hiding behind a woman, dressed in a full black burqa & shooting at our troops? Is the squad leader supposed to get on the bullhorn & say “ah, excuse me ma’m, please move – there is a bad guy behind you”.

        It’s >> combat << with real lead whizzing all around … dropping a bomb in combat & innocent people die is not murder unless of course, the dictatorial leader lured them there & tipped the media, then that leader is the murderer.

        It is combat & war & innocent people always die. If you don't like it, run for office.

        You said –

        "… I imagine that if a foreign army was searching for “insurgents” in America they would likely meet with resistance in 99% of incidents as well. Western media would call them patriots …"

        Hardly – the opportunistic, western media would spin it in whatever direction gets them the greatest audience share & nets them the greatest advertising dollars. You chose to spin it to justify your position but it doesn't quite work.

        Remember, the insurgents have a bevy of virgins waiting for them – the envy of their friends & Charlie Sheen.

        Lastly, you deserve to die defending your American home if an armed "insurgent" breaks in & you choose to fire a warning shot over their head …

        Reply
        • Anonymous January 25, 2012, 3:35 pm

          If your town was under attack you would do what was necessary to attack those who are attacking you. The US army is an invading army without just cause plain and simple. Why the soldiers are there is relevant. If an insurance salesman is at your front door and you shoot him-murder. If there is some Chinese soldier with a weapon pointing at your house and you shoot him-self defense.

          If you drop a bomb anywhere near non-military combatants then you committed murder plain and simple. Terrorist compound 500 miles from the nearest town or known residence and a goat herder wanders into the danger zone well accidents happen. Could leaders on the other side share the blame? Obviously, but Americans claim they take the high road so they should get on it.

          Coward hiding behind his wife is a horrible human being. Sucks to be in a position where you have to choose between shooting a woman to get to her coward husband and save your life or die. That is why I believe that soldiers need to start refusing to follow orders that are immoral (and arguably unconstitutional).

          You may get a few media outlets criticizing people defending the US, but the vast majority would call them patriots and I think 99.9999% of your readership would be involved.

          I don’t think most soldiers are bad people, but they are committing crimes on behalf of the crime bosses in charge (all the way up to Bush and Obama). I don’t want soldiers rounded up and sent to jail I just think they should do the right thing and more importantly that those in charge should do the right thing and quit asking them to do wrong.

          BTW, someone kicks my door down weapon in their hand or know I am not giving a warning shot. That is why I will refuse to be a hypocrite and criticize the “inssurgents” who are defending their home.

          Reply
          • Jason January 25, 2012, 4:17 pm

            Anonymous,

            Do the right thing, according to who? Soldiers do what you are unwilling to do – obey the chain of command & I respect that. Don’t put it back on the soldiers – that’s cheap & blatantly wrong. You don’t like it? Complain to the proper source or help run a campaign.

            Here’s my simple solution – remove all of the media & any kind of public viewing of war & let the soldiers do the job.

            Personally, I would have NO problem taking a .45 and finishing off any wounded enemy combatant. Why patch them up to live another day & set off an IED on one of my comrades? It’s that soft shoulder, limp wristed position that puts our men & women in harms way, nothing more.

            Incidentally, why is it ok for the enemy to decapitate people on the Internet, because we “invaded” their homeland?

            And defending their homes? Please, spare me with the “protect the victim” speech. They are doing a lot more than “defending”.

            Our enemy has always fought ignoring the “rules”. They slam planes into the Twin Towers & the Pentagon like a herd of cowardly zealots, then cheer at that tragedy.

            Instead of soldiers maybe we should send in an army of therapists to help them work through the “whys” in their lives & explain the value of showering at least once a week.

            Remember, war ain’t perfect & innocent people always die – goat herders & the CPA who sat behind a desk doing his job on the 108th floor of the Twin Towers.

          • PS January 25, 2012, 4:28 pm

            If the situation was completely reversed & my town was under attack because of a small handful of maniacs decided to stir the hornet’s nest & run away & hide in some Afghani cave, me, mine & everybody I knew would be the first ones out of Dodge.

            Better to be a live chicken than a dead martyr.

          • Really January 26, 2012, 9:55 am

            Jason,

            First off, I made that post. Just forgot to sign my name.

            “Obeying the chain of command” is not an excuse to do wrong. By your reasoning NAZI soldiers did no wrong and were, in fact, honorable because they did what they were told. Heck, those in Al Queada who aren’t in leadership positions must also be honorable then too because they are “Obeying the chain of command”. Also if the US government ever tries to take you to a FEMA camp you surely will say “Of course, and thank you for obeying the chain of command. My food stores and weapons are in the basement.” Surely you wouldn’t be a hypocrite and shoot back. Personally I admire people who are able to think for themselves. I thought we called people who can’t think for themselves and do whatever they are told “sheeple”.

            I personally think it is the prideful attitude of those in charge (and mirrored by people like you) that puts soldiers in harms way. Just leave the freaking Middle East, especially Saudi and you would see this problem go away. Sure the terrorists think they’ve won, but who cares?! Let the despot monarchy in Saudi take care of themselves.

            You can throw the limp wrested remarks out all you want but I would rather be looked at as a pansy and have the courage to think for myself then “obey the chain of command” no matter what is asked like some spineless NAZI. Yup, I said it.

            US soldiers are foreign invaders killing people because they live in an Arab country. I know that you have been brainwashed to the point of being unable to recognize if the United States military does something wrong, but I think deep down you see how silly your argument is. If the cowards on9-11 had buddies on the ground all over the US and some came to your home town I guarantee you would heed the call to rally to its defense. You would fight because your family was in danger. You would fight because your town is your home and doesn’t deserve to be destroyed. You would fight because you would consider the attack an attack on your way of life and everything you hold sacred. Why do you think these people fight when you come to their town? All the same reasons you would have been fighting. They believe that the US trying to eliminate (by both diplomatic and violent means) a Muslim based government is an attack on their way of life. Realistically most Arab governments are like this one; they manipulate the people for their own benefit. People act like the goal is to institute democracy to give the people the power and the people have spoken; they want am Islamic government.

            Who the hell said a Internet execution was OK??? You argue like a school boy. “I pinched his sister so he pulled my brother’s hair. That’s why I pinched his sister to begin with.”

            Why do you not want people to know what soldiers do? Is it because deep down you know it is wrong and unacceptable or is it because you want to do worse?

            You keep bringing up the Geneva convention. You know who else didn’t follow the accepted rules of war at the time? The patriot forces in the American revolution. They were trying to remove q mighty military power who they felt had no right to be there. They had neither the ability nor the firepower to fight fair so they fought dirty. Why are they role models and the “insurgents” evil? Oh yeah, because you were born here instead of there. If you were born in Iraq you would have been one of those “insurgents” killing “infidels” to get rid of the “great Satan” who was trying to destroy your way of life. Do you know why? Because you are a conformist who does what he is told because you are someone who is easily brainwashed. I believe sheeple is the preferred term in these circles.

            Have you drove around America or visited a Walmart? Someone needs to send some psychologists here to evaluate why people consider only the lives of people like them as valuable. The Republicans could be asked why they only value life while it is in the womb. The Democrats could be asked why they do nothing to prove they care about the lives of poor people in non-election years. The people who vote for either one could be asked why they are too stupid to see that they get garbage because they vote for garbage. Why do Americans kill each other for shoes? Why do Americans beat up Hindi Indians for being “Muslim”? Why do most Walmart shoppers not feel it is appropriate to shower and change out of their pajamas?

            Seriously, what the he’ll business do Americans have teaching others how to live? We are basically the trailer park of the developed world.

            Innocent people do die in war and that is why war is a crime. Just like there is a such thing as a justifiable homicide there can be a such thing as justifiable war, but when the war is not justifiable those who have integrity should refuse to participate. Iraq was not justifiable and Afghanistan was somewhat justifiable at one point. Of course, just having the honorability to not put military defenses in a position to ally with the horrible despots in Saudi would have eliminated the problem in the first place.

            But hey why let rational thought and morals interfere with nationalist obedience right? Not yours anyway.

        • Anonymous January 27, 2012, 1:11 am

          “Remember, the insurgents have a bevy of virgins waiting for them –”

          Too bad the virgins all play Dungeons and Dragons.

          (…thank you, thank you! Don’t forget to tip your waitress!)

          Reply
    • T.R. January 24, 2012, 9:35 pm

      I do have to agree , stop enlisting and enabling the government . Its time to take the drugs away from the junkies .

      Reply
  • GoneWithTheWind January 23, 2012, 12:59 pm

    If an American soldier commits a crime or steps outside of the offical operations plan they are punished. There are indeed instances where our soldiers have done things none of us approve of and typically they are punished for it. To point at the soldier who has made a mistake and subscribe his acts to all soldiers and to all the military is naive at best and downright dishonest and dispicable at worst. I often wonder what is the intent of those who call our soldiers baby killers or murders. Clearly they have never been in the military and understood the enormous effort out military leaders have taken to prevent these things. Or know the pride and committment our individual soldiers, sailors and airmen have. They have never taken that oath of enlistment and understood both the awe and pride in what they are involved in. Throwing around charges and insults at our military seems to be the national pastime of the left but why would anyone do it and that the same time claim to be a patriot?

    Reply
    • Jason January 23, 2012, 2:10 pm

      Once again, I completely agree with you.

      When soldiers returned from Vietnam and were painted with the broad brush of being accused as baby killers because of a sadistic action taken by Lt. William Calley at My Lai, I find it despicable of that public. It was far, far the exception but today’s media wants to make it newsworthy to the point of mass disruption.

      The sure fire cure to winning the war? Remove ALL media – ALL of it & let the soldiers do the job. The war would easily end in a couple of months.

      Remember, the Geneva Convention & Rules of Engagement only apply to US soldiers, nobody else. Take the gloves off & use the enemy rules – they will surrender in no time flat.

      Imagine what Alexander the Great would have done if a ship load of media showed up on the shore to keep things fair. They would have become excellent practice targets.

      Reply
      • T.R. January 24, 2012, 9:45 pm

        Well first he would have bent them over ……… he was one of those you know .

        Reply
        • Jason January 25, 2012, 12:04 pm

          Hence the name Alexsssssander, the Great! Who was going to be the first say no to him?

          Reply
          • T.R. January 25, 2012, 7:00 pm

            Haha !

  • izzy January 24, 2012, 2:35 am

    I used to wonder how most of the (middle-class) people I met could afford to buy nice new houses & cars & stuff, while I scrimped & saved, knowing I couldn’t afford so much debt. Turned out they couldn’t afford to buy them either… now they are losing them.
    I’m not so sure a person treating their kid to a birthday cake with food stamps is much different than someone with a f/t job and thousands of dollars in debt buying lots of Xmas gifts “on sale” – or whether they’re any different than a “banker” telling both of them they should “own their own home” as an “investment”. Or whether they’re any different than countries & municipalities around the world (not just U.S./Bush/Obama) who, believing the S&P ratings agencies who rated bad mortgages as “good” investments, brought the mortgages and are now having our countries and towns rated as “bad” investments by S&P.
    They are all deluded – from the welfare queens to the banker kings, and everyone stuck in between. Those who can figure out how to “work the system” – whether it’s the welfare system or the two-party system or the financial system – will end up in the black market, not in gangs.
    The gangs will be made up of angry people who wonder why they would follow the rules and end up with nothing.

    Reply
    • izzy January 24, 2012, 3:06 am

      Also remember, some people will always try to rob you with a fountain pen, even in the Dark Ages. Stay clear of them. Welfare cheats are no different than the insanely rich heirs with tax accountants keeping their money offshore – now there’s welfare & entitlements on a grand scale.

      Reply
  • GoneWithTheWind January 24, 2012, 4:36 pm

    You could not be more wrong and what you said shows what is wrong with people who do commit crimes. A welfare cheat is a thief, simple as that. A person or company trying to keep some of their own money instead of paying it all in taxes is not cheating or stealing anything as long as they operate within the law. There is this myth about having accounts “offshore” and you see it rearing it’s ugly head in false claims about Romney (who is not my guy in this). You are indeed allowed (read the constitution) to invest overseas and have accounts overseas. If you are a U.S. citizen you must declare that income on your taxes and pay any taxes due. Generally any taxes due and paid to the other country can be deducted from your taxes due in the U.S. Either way if you are in the 15% tax bracket or the 35% tax bracket that is what you will pay even if part goes to the host country and part goes to the U.S. There is nothing wrong with trying to reduce your taxes legally and there is nothing wrong with having money and investments outside the country.

    Reply
  • DaaSwampman January 24, 2012, 8:25 pm

    The days will come when it all goes away (stealing from the productive to give to the nonproductive) those day will be very ugly! I see no justice in taking from one person, just to give to another. Help when needed should come from your family, friends, and church. It is not the duty or right of the goverment to take care of your every need. The problem is not the money (it’s not real money – just the stuff their printing), but the distruction of community. People no longer need each other as they have Mama goverment. Then we wonder why people have no real friends, families are no longer close, and few go to church. When the goverment decides to back away for whatever or preceived reason, there will be nobody left to save your ass. I grew up in a world where families helped each other. It was not only your duty to help, but to be able to help. You worked for more than yourself and had more than yourself. It was a better place than today with a bunch of halfwits on facebood while spending every penny they make on crap they don’t need. DaaSwampman

    Reply
    • really January 26, 2012, 10:13 am

      You know if the churches had helped the poor in the 1900 years that they had the chance there wouldn’t have been a need for things such as food stamps right?

      People who don’t go to church do so because of the hypocrisy of people like yourself who claim that taking care of those who can’t is a moral responsibility (hence the need to be in a position to do so) and yet throw temper tantrums at the immorality of your tax money being spent on helping those in need.

      Besides if you do a little bit of research you will see how little is spent on “welfare”. If you don’t include Medicare, social security, and unemployment since you work and earn those “entitlements”‘you are looking at somewhere between 5% and 10% depending on how strictly you define “welfare” since technically it no longer exists as a program.

      Reply
      • Jason January 26, 2012, 11:16 am

        Really,

        Here’s a strange but true phenomenon – most churches run on a 90/10 rule. Ninety percent of the operating capital & charitable use dollars (for the poor) comes 10% of the regular attenders. So in other words, a church of 200 people is supported – by in large – by 20 members.

        To take it a step further – most businesses, sports, sales etc operate the with the same mathematical formula. The book & subsequent movie “Moneyball”, the General Manager – Billy Beane, proved that conventional belief did not have to be accepted. He constructed a model (team) of people whom all worked in unison with their individual strengths & that created points on the scoreboard WITHOUT big money.

        (It was like that now obvious solution Einstein & “his” Theory of Special & General Relativity proved, done so by recognizing the parts on an equal playing surface – transcending convention).

        Here’s my point, which addresses the present entitlement context AND your point about people sitting in the bleachers so eager to bitch & moan about the perceived economic injustices. In the last 50 years our country has evolved to where we are simply spoiled brats or complacent or “given ups”. We have moved away from founding principles which essentially was to help pick others up <— key point. It's the "teach a man to fish" principle which I submit IS a natural belief to man & woman kind.

        I believe this whole economic implosion, the ability to expose a politician's corruption via the Internet is actually a great thing & is forcing the door open for change. I think it is absolutely impossible in this day & age of advanced thinking to have the country or world blow apart as many seem to conjecture on these survivalist blogs. That is a fools theorem, a true oxymoron.

        So here we have far less that 1% of the population standing on the soap box & screaming about how crappy things have become yet, provide no solution other than hoard & make a run for it, and in a semi sadistic sense, I find it quite amusing.

        Back on point – it is the management of the "wealth" that needs to go back to base principles, the managers need to be severely spanked or simply man-up & lead by the right example, there is plenty of money to run our country correctly.

        I believe we as individuals need to lead that charge because in a true democracy (which we have) that is the dog & the elected managers are the wagging tail and many of these survivalist solution-less complainers are the little irritating fleas trying their damnedest to suck the life out of the greater mass.

        It's time for fleas spray ….

        Reply
      • GoneWithTheWind January 29, 2012, 11:34 am

        Medicare and Social Security are not welfare these programs are paid for by the recipients.
        The federal government spends over $1.2 trillion dollars a year on welfare (which includes medicaid) and the states through federal law have to spend an equal amount to supplement those programs. I would consider in excess of $2.4 trillion a year to be a lot of money. Most people on welfare don’t “need” welfare they have simply fould their niche and see no reason to work or take care of themselves. Welfare is the reason for our massive federal debt and the reason we have a dozen or so states on the verge of bankruptcy.

        Reply
  • Really January 27, 2012, 2:30 pm

    Jason,

    It is hypocritical to say that you would not do what ever an invading army said while criticizing the Iraqi people for doing what you say you would do.

    NAZI foot soldiers used the excuse that they were just obeying orders. US foot soldiers are just “obeying the chain of command”. How can one be honorable in what they are doing and the other be monsters? I know it is an extreme analogy, but quite frankly so many Americans are to brainwashed in this idea that everything an American soldier does is moral just because he is doing it on behalf of the American government. I thought an extreme analogy might jar a few to their senses.

    I have told more than a few soldiers who fought in Iraq exactly how I feel about what is being done over there and that I feel the soldiers are morally culpable for not refusing some if the things they are expected to do. Out of 20 or so soldiers 2 have hit me and 3 have walked away. Most agreed with me. One asked me to talk to his little brother who was thinking of enlisting and another decided to not re-enlist like he had previously had planned.

    Like I have said (even if you lack the ability to understand it) most soldiers are good, but many of them are doing wrong. A few turn around when presented with logic, but many (like you) would rather keep telling themselves that because they do it in the name of America that it is okay.

    Sadly too many end up like my friend whose son has no father because he died fighting for a cause he knew was bullcrap. But hey they sent his wife a flag and said he was a hero so she should feel better right? Her son should get up every day in Kindergarten and pledge allegiance to the country that took his dad away so Halliburton could get richer right?
    O never mind you can’t comprehend it anyways n

    Reply
  • GoneWithTheWind January 29, 2012, 11:42 am

    Saddam was killing over 20,000 Iraqi citizen a month prior to the U.S. invasion. His sons (and him) were regularly going to girls schools and selecting very young girls to rape. Saddams secret police were actively oppressing over half the population because they were the wrong sect of the muslim religion. To act as though Iraqi citizens were fine until the invasion to remove Saddam is ignorant.

    Reply
    • Jason January 29, 2012, 3:16 pm

      I did not know how many he killed & was amazed by your number. I found this article that says as many as 800,000 died by his hand. Truly unbelievable …

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein%27s_Iraq

      Reply
    • Really January 31, 2012, 3:15 pm

      I never said that everything was fine prior to the invasion by the US. I am simply saying that the attitude that anyone fighting against US invaders is bad simply for fighting US invaders.

      Most Republicans seem to think Obama is a horrible president (most don’t put him anywhere near Saddam bad) and don’t want him to be president. If an invading army came to the US with it’s primary objective being removing Obama and installing a puppet government for the invading nation many non-mitary Republicans would join the fight to repel the invaders. They wouldn’t be doing so in support of Obama, but in defense of their country. Why are Iraquis who do the same thing bad?

      BTW, Saddam was no worse than the despots still in power in Saudi Arabia. Why is okay for US forces to execute so many for living in Iraq while Saudi remains an ally? # of 9-11 terrorists from Iraq=0. How many were Saudi? Most of them. (Actual # left out because of my having forgotten the exact #)

      Reply
      • Jason February 2, 2012, 12:56 am

        Why does the US military kill (not execute) so many Iraqi’s & Afghani’s?

        Because they are in season dopey & there is no limit! Sheesh, isn’t that obvious?

        Reply
        • Really February 2, 2012, 1:32 pm

          Yet they are bad for treating US soldiers for target practice?

          Let’s just hope the ones they hit have the same intellect and moral integrity as you. That way society is improved on some level by these armed intrusions by the United Corporations of America.

          Reply
          • Jason February 2, 2012, 8:40 pm

            Now that’s funny – same intellect or moral integrity as me. Absolutely priceless!

            Listen, if they wear a black burqa or a sheet on their head tied on with a fan belt, shoot first & ask questions second or … not. It’s called guilty by association.

            Either you’re Red, White & Blue and for Haliburton & Bechtel or 6 feet under! What a great country we live in – Hallelujah!!

  • Really February 3, 2012, 3:23 pm

    I know the idea of a racist bigot such as yourself having integrity is hilarious.

    “Guilty by association” huh? You proudly associate with the US so by association you are a racist, a murderer, a trespasser, a bully, a hypocrite, an egotist, a war criminal, a liar, a blackmailer, greedy, child murder, rapist, torturer and the list could go on.

    I expect you to be willingly murdered in your home for the crimes Christians have committed (or atheist or whatever religion you claim to be).

    I’m sure God loves it when his name is conjured in the name of a country that clearly couldn’t care less about the kind of person his son they claim to follow was.

    You are a pathetic, brain washed, red white and blue moron.

    Reply
  • Jason February 3, 2012, 7:28 pm

    That was the funniest thing I’ve read in a very long time – seriously, I was laughing out loud.

    You are soooo, sooo serious & if you honestly believed that I believed what I wrote – especially in light of my other, diametrically opposed posts, then that is truly sad, but funny.

    Lighten up – take a tranquilizer, some blood pressure medication & relax a bit.

    Listen – if you so vehemently hate America, which is your Constitutional right by the way, why not leave & find a better place?

    It is too easy to be an arm chair quarterback, point out the injustices perpetrated by “corporate America” & run around like an irresponsible child bringing your hate speech & fist shaking to the unsuspecting.

    Man-up and be a person of solution & responsibility and stop the inane, pointless opinions – it “really” serves nothing positive.

    Reply

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