Quick Poll – When Do You Think TS will HTF?

On Friday I was trolling around the various blogs and noticed that the economy is coming up a lot lately.  Yeah, yeah, it’s been coming up a lot since 2008, but it seems more people are naming 2012 as the year it all goes to hell.

It seems that the Godless vermin… uh, I mean mainstream media, are also reporting that things might not be so rosy these days.  The “recovery” isn’t recovering quite as well as they first thought, Europe is going to hell in a hand-basket, and the housing market and unemployment remain pretty dismal.  It’s the debt people!!

I try not to be an alarmist and read both sides of every story if I can, but the news seems to be leaning overwhelmingly towards the negative even from those who are usually positive.  And for those people that are usually down on the economy?  Oh man, batten down the hatches ‘cause the economy is going to crash PDQ.

One of the problems of this great invention called the Internet is that there’s so much information it’s hard to figure out who’s right and who’s wrong.  You read one side and the economic numbers and statistics seem to show that things are improving (slowly), but another writer using the same numbers can show how it’s all coming unraveled.  How’s a prepper to decide?

And how much should you prep?  Are you like me and think, “I’ll put away a few months of food and prep my land to the point where I can be self sufficient for a few months if I have to,” or are you more the ‘all in’ kind of prepper where every waking moment is spent fortifying your defenses and adding to your five years years of dry goods and shooting your weapons every day practicing for when the zombies appear on the horizon?

It’s all good.  Even if you’re just prepping a little, it’s just that much less help you’ll need if the country/world/economy really does come undone.

I like to do this every so often, so here’s my question to you:

What form do think TEOTWAWKI will take and when will it happen?

The  economy?  Global warming?  Peak oil?  Asteroid?

and when will it happen – 2012?  2014?  Undetermined, but sooner rather than later?  Unknown?

Let me know what you think in the comments below.

-Jarhead Survivor

70 comments… add one
  • Survivor Mike April 30, 2012, 7:24 am

    As I’ve been saying on my site, I believe we have 12-18 months of runway left. I think it will be a combination of things that start the ball rolling.

    I think oil will continue to rise to unsustainable levels pushing people to the edge. I then think we’ll see a natural disaster of sorts that will trigger the unrest. That will likely trigger a market crash and away we go.

    Be prepared folks – knowledge is power.

  • Tim April 30, 2012, 8:45 am

    This TEOTWAWKI is lkikely to be a relatively slow (but more dangerous) descent, as opposed to the global implosion oif WWI. Europe’s fiscal diaster will initially ‘buoy’ the U.S. dollar (and some other currencies), as the world seeks security. But eventually we’ll succumb to the inexorable downward-pull of our equally stupid fiscal policy.

    I call this slow descent ‘more dangerous’ because our society will gradually acclimate to hopelessness (see Argentina), eventually accepting bad behavior as a rational response to its new reality, rather than responding aggressively to the existential crisis it atually is. In this context, neighbors will be less likely to ‘rally together’ for their common cause, opting instead to focus more closely on their own immediate situation. Gang activity, kidnappings, drug use, human trafficking will increase gradually as people lose hope. Government will attempt to exert more control over the populous, but normative contempt for its intrinsic corruption will render it largely ignored.

    Plan on having 8-10 years of relative stability/prosperity as Europe crumbles. Use this time to posture yourself for the future you envision (whatever that may be). Anyone who actually wants to ‘escape’ this fate will emmigrate once they see the writing on the wall.

  • G.F. April 30, 2012, 9:09 am

    Hope Tim is right RE: 8-10 years, but I’m predicting “tomorrow”.

    • Jason May 2, 2012, 8:42 pm

      Remember … tomorrow is the busiest day of the week.

  • irishdutchuncle April 30, 2012, 9:35 am

    my preparedness goal is to not even notice SHTF for a few weeks after the event. (i’d probably notice an asteroid strike, or a nuke)

    if you knew the date and time, could you really be ready?

    be as ready as you can be today. next week try to be a bit more ready than you were last week. be prepared for the things which are likely to happen: there will be bad weather, you will get boo-boos, you will get thirsty, you will get hungry. the wolf (or the bear, or mountain lion) will be at your door. make sure you can take care of these problems first, and then the zombies are no big deal…

    • Novice April 30, 2012, 12:43 pm

      Well said, Irish. Do what you can now. If tomorrow comes, do more then.

      • irishdutchuncle April 30, 2012, 4:50 pm

        … and as “Westie” pointed out (see below) “as well as we can within our means”.

    • irishdutchuncle May 6, 2012, 4:51 pm

      … and as ray pointed out (farther below): “no man knows the day or hour”. (in reference to an event that’s far more important to be ready for than a mere SHTF)

  • tempermentalrain April 30, 2012, 9:39 am

    Immigrate where?
    My sister packed up 10 years ago, now lives on an island off New Zealand, said she couldn’t take it anymore. (didn’t feel safe here.) No guns allowed where she is…I prefer my gun to the crown (protection wise).Right now anyway…what do you suggest?

    • Tim April 30, 2012, 10:34 am

      Regionally from CONUS, I’d submit that Canada is the obvious choice. Low population density, near non-existant border controls, fertile land and abundant natural resources provide the space opportunity to thrive amidst the chaos.

      BTW, I think your sister’s choice of NZ is *outstanding*. The only real challenges are the initial movement 12,000 miles away and making the commitment to rarely seeing loved ones again.

      And WRT the ‘no guns allowed’, when you’re dealing with extremely low population densities like Canada, Australia or NZ, what the government doesn’t ‘know’….the government doesn’t need to (and won’t) care about.

      • Peter April 30, 2012, 2:36 pm

        Tim, I can’t speak about gun laws in Australia or New Zealand but I can speak with some authority about gun laws in Canada. Canada has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the Western world! Space here doesn’t allow me to go into all the details but let it suffice to state that it is ILLEGAL to possess ANY firearm….without a licence. In other words, the government permits you to break the law as long as you have its permission via a five year licence. If you should forget to renew you licence you become an instant criminal with severe sanctions of up to ten years in prison. No exceptions. Many good law abiding Canadian firearm owner have had their entire gun collection seized/destroyed by the state, face costly court trials and or prison sentences just for being absent minded.
        Rememer the old slogan: “The Mounties always get their man.” They do. They run the Firearms Act.
        Of course the criminals don’t have to worry about the Act. They can always get ALL the guns they want.

        • Tim April 30, 2012, 3:34 pm

          “Of course the criminals don’t have to worry about the Act. They can always get ALL the guns they want.”

          Very true, sir. And in a trur TEOTWAWKI, I wouldn’t be surprised to see an “undocumented alien” picture on Canada’s southern border that closely resembles that of the U.S. today.

    • Graybeard May 1, 2012, 12:51 am

      tempermentalrain and Tim:
      Just south of Canada is Montana. the gun laws there are minimal, and they have a lot of wide open space. That state even passed a law saying a person does not have to register a gun sale or purchase unless they intend to take it out of the state.
      If you like less winter and more summer, Texas still has a lot of open spaces. We also have “castle laws” regarding guns. That is you have a right to protect your home (and your automobile if you are in it) without any license from any government. You only need a license if you want to carry a concealed gun with you in public off your own property. I know we’ve been out from under the crown for a while, but most of us still speak English (or close to it).

  • Westie April 30, 2012, 9:50 am

    There are several plausible scenarios, so it’s hard to say which one will really be It. If Nobama is re elected all bets are off. It could get very bad very fast. All we can do is prepare as well as we can within our means for any possibility.

  • Cold Warrior April 30, 2012, 10:05 am

    The single event which will cause/ is causing the continued problems with the economy, joblessness, high food prices, ect.. will be the re-election of our current Commander and Chief and his 40 marxist Czars. It’s is socialist programs which are at fault along with a slow attack on our culture by International Marxists since the 1940’s.

    Yes, what is going on with the FED is criminal, but it should be remembered that the worst of it is due to socicalist policies from Progressive politcal Parties.

    Almost all full blown Marxist Governments happen after some sort of destabilization. Their plan can be found amoung their reading materials. Also see the utube video’s of Yuri Bezmenov, ex-KGB agent. Thus, we are getting “set up” for civil war/revolution very soon.

    Many folks snicker when “Communism” is mentioned, however over 1/3 of the World’s population live under the yoke of this criminal enterprise even today.

    The one and only event to prep for, Nov. 2012

  • Spook45 April 30, 2012, 10:28 am

    I think it already has. IT just has not trickled down to the bottom layers and the local level yet. For instance, we have federal court and supreme court findings being ignored and the administration goes around them, we have congress taking actions and being end run and ignored as well we have meebers of the jint chiefs and Leon PINHEDA telling congress they no longer need thier approval to go to war. We are, by our system of govt, WROL. At some point its gonna get down to the local level and that is when we will see what most people here concider SHTF situation. Given the current clmate and what is going on at this moment in time, I will be surprised if we even get to have another election in NOV. In fact, I have heard quotes from congress critters that say if we do not defeat BO in this election that it likely be the LAST ELECTION. From my point of view and looking at the historical aspect of what has transpired in the past in similar collapse situations, the s has already htf and it reallity just hasnt set in yet. Things have not gotten bad enough for people to realize it at the local level. ITs just a matter of time really. Not if bt when…

    • Cold Warrior April 30, 2012, 11:16 am

      Yup, “Red Dawn” happened in Nov. 08, but instead of Soviet troops, it was Ivy League educated Radicals which took control of our country.
      Look at race relations now
      Look at our credit rating being downgraded
      Look at our $5 trillion added debt
      Look at the guns sold to Mexico
      Look at the ” cookies” being placed on sites such as these
      Look at Google gathering info on customers for the Gov.
      Look at the drones which will soon be fly over YOUR HOUSE.
      Look at Christians being forced to pay for abortions.

  • stardot April 30, 2012, 11:18 am

    Destabilization and collapse of the economy. Our economy is based on paper with no intrinsic value except a promise from unethical politicians. The collapse will happen fairly rapidly (less than 1 week) and take the country by surprised. No money, no jobs, no fuel, no food. Hungry masses rioting and looting/pillaging.

  • Edna April 30, 2012, 11:21 am

    To use a frayed and ragged quote (not pointed at you): “It’s the economy, stupid!”

  • stardot April 30, 2012, 11:23 am

    As to the when…. Europe destabilization will likely be the tipping point. When Europe falls, we’re right behind them as the Central bankers are hooked together at the hip. Massive unemployment is on the way in the neighborhood of 40% or higher. Maybe late 2012 or first half 2013.

  • Cold Warrior April 30, 2012, 12:21 pm

    I see from some of the comments that many of you have drunk the “It’s only the ecomony stupid” cool aid.
    There is no doubt that the economy is being destabliized by debt.
    This leads to class/race hate between the “have’s and “have nots”.

    The OWS 99% vs 1% is classic Marxism. As Lenin said, “Civil War is the natural progression of class warfare” and as Mao said, “Political power comes from the barrel of a gun”.

    The three stages of a Marxist takeover, which results in one party rule are:#1 Demoralize, sow disrespect for laws and trust in economic system, control media.
    #2. Destablize, light the fires of civil unrest, promote hate between groups within a country. Civil War.
    #3. Normalize, send in the troops to restabilize, kill off useful idiots and resisters. Arrest hoarders.

    • stardot April 30, 2012, 1:59 pm

      I don’t believe it’s ONLY the economy – many factors are in play. I believe there is a new world order with shadowy powerful figures (Soros and many others) operating behind the scenes. I don’t have details regarding any of that conspiracy stuff, other than it is obvious to me there is market and societal manipulation going on. Whether there is a false flag attack or virus (bio-terrorism) that causes POTUS to declare martial law (the mechanism is already in place via executive orders) and call off the upcoming November election.

      I don’t believe it is a comet or asteroid, ice age, global warming or other natural occurances.

      • Cold Warrior April 30, 2012, 6:03 pm

        Yes Soros seems to have his part. I’m not sure if he is paying the bills or being used to launder money coming out of other Marxist states like Russia. Two books which every American should read, before you can’t anymore, are The Black Book of Communism (The whole History) and The Sword and the Shield, which are taken from KGB transcripts about all the con games and lies which were played on us stupid American’s by them.
        For example: Did you know that almost all of the anti-war groups during the Viet Nam era were funded under the table by the KGB, hard to believe.

  • Waterboy April 30, 2012, 12:40 pm

    I suggest re-reading Atlas Shrugged, not because I agree with her philosophy, but it is a scenario seeming too familiar in these days and times. I think it will be a complete and sudden failure of our economy that will be our undoing and I think it is already starting.

  • JP in MT April 30, 2012, 1:09 pm

    Some dates to consider:

    Summer 2012: Pres Obama has been in office 3.5 years.
    Nov 6th thru Jan 19th: Pres Obama looses the election but is still in office.
    Dec 2012: On year after the US told Israel that Iran could have a nuclear weapon within a year.
    Summer 2013: 6 months after a potential attack by Israel upon Iran.


  • Rusco April 30, 2012, 1:23 pm

    I’ve been prepping for over 30 years. I don’t worry about it too much any more because I am prepared. Preparedness is a state of mind, a way of life and it needn’t take over your life. Economic failure, nuclear war, floods, disasters? – Yes, they can all happen but enjoy today, enjoy being with your family, friends. Enjoy the weather. Enjoy a good meal. If you are prepared, live your life while you can. Hopefully nothing horrible is going to happen (and I’ve heard all sorts of lunatic predictions during my life) but if it does you have a fighting chance. Stay alert, read the news, analyze the different viewpoints, take dire predictions with a grain of salt. Do NOT listen to Alex Jones (what a moron!), the Chicken Little of the Internet.

    If you are young do some military service. If you are older, camp, practice regularly at a rifle/pistol range. Read up on and practice outdoor skills, do some gardening, liaise with neighbours, strengthen your local community, keep a fair amount of food, water, heating supplies on hand. Above all, don’t stress that you are not 100% prepared. Few of us are but being in the prepper state of mind is the biggest step. Cheers.

  • Steve Minsel April 30, 2012, 1:58 pm

    Today it’s Monday April 30,2012…
    The question in my mind is …since January 1, 2012..is America in better shape..or..in worse shape ?
    My take on SHTF is that IT…HAS..BEEN..HITTING..THE FAN since
    2007 -2008 and has NOT SLOWED DOWN since then. I believe that if you lost your job (due to downturn crisis) ; lost your home ; depleted your liquid assets to stay afloat ; then declared bankruptcy ; maybe lived in a tent or out of your car ; live in the woods outside of town in a shanty ; sleep and bath at libraries or Hospital waiting rooms ; dumpster dive to scavege food & misc……then for YOU…the S..has..HTF already. Take this scenario X 5-6 million Americans & what have ya got ? Plus the WORSE IS YET TO COME !! Just one day at a time is all most people can handle at the moment…My advise is GET YOUR PREPS DONE..YA HAVEN’T SEEN ANYTHING ..YET !! GOD SPEED AMERICANS RESTORATION…OF…AMERICA !

  • Jason April 30, 2012, 2:04 pm

    The economy? Global warming? Peak oil? Asteroid? And when will it happen – 2012? 2014? Undetermined, but sooner rather than later? Unknown?

    These are not the questions to be asking. Why & what is the source or basis for the above, is the questions to be asked & why has everything become so damn confusing?

    TEOTWAWKI has already hit & it’s called the Internet. This is a freely accessible entry point into a world of mass confusion. That mass confusion is caused by a freedom of speech that has run amuck & by in large, doesn’t have any censoring whatsoever. All you need is an Internet access portal & you can find anything – even the darkest sides of humanity. BTW, I intentionally used the word “portal”.

    What the bigger problem is, is it is self perpetuating system that is out of control. As thoughts or ideas come to a conscious level & God forbid- mainstream, blogs & websites begin to emerge en masse & grow tentacles to the farthest reaches of the human imagination AND will service that dark side. As Jarhead had alluded to, the truth starts getting blurred, resulting in planting minute seeds of distrust within us all and those seeds will not remain dormant.

    Imagine for a moment that you fell out of this know world and were thrust into the cyberworld as if it was a true & physical alternate reality. Everything you would see, feel & experience is what is available at the other side of the www dot and now IS your known world. Personal sanity would evaporate in less than 1 hour, guaranteed. It is a form of Hell in my opinion.

    So many sit here wondering or speculating what to prep for & based upon what source of information? Jarhead is confused, I am confused & so are you. The mainstream media is confused as well which is why they make the mundane or the insignificant into mountains because they cannot simply report events, they must create emotion to feed our brave numb reality.

    We need to have some sort of mechanism in place to protect ourselves from ourselves – especially for children under the age of 18. They are being poisoned at an alarming rate while most parents have their eye on some self-serving ball.

    Do you really need to text, email or catch up with the Kardashians on a smart phone or local free WIFI on a computer tablet? Let a child as young as 3 play with some handheld device while you get lost in that alternate reality? The answer is obviously no BUT most do it anyway because it is freely accessible & cyberspace can entertain (distract) our little ones. We assume that input is acceptable because someone rated it G or deemed it age appropriate. Eliminating the ability to think independently or with autonomy is the beginning of the end for a human.

    Humans are survival beings & is part of that design. The body heals itself, we have the innate “fight or flight” responses & more. There are literally millions of examples of this from the Nazi concentration camps, the Killing Fields of Cambodia, Russian gulags etc. Once man loses his/her dignity they will do anything to survive – it is unavoidable.

    Will the economy collapse worldwide, will Obama get elected & start a marxist regime, will the fossil fuel supplies dry up, will the globe warm up or cool down, will terrorist cells here in the US decide to enter martyrdom for a bevy of virgins, will the bird flew mutate? Does it really matter?

    The only thing that defeat a human is the loss of his/her mind & the Internet in my opinion, is doing everything possible to bring us to our knees. Don’t believe me? Unplug from it all for a week or two minimum & see how your point of view changes.

    So to answer your questions Jarhead – none of the above & God only knows … and that’s the only place I put my faith.

    • Cold Warrior April 30, 2012, 6:13 pm

      Sorry dude, I can’t agree. Why? 125 million victims of Marxist Governments says so and 1/3 of the World’s population living under Red Party rule says so.
      As a Christian I can’t turn my back on those in Gulags in Cuba or North Korea, no would I expect that Christ would want me to.

      Our President was endorsed by both Pravda and The American Communist Party recently and you’re tell us to turn off our computers because we are confused? We sir, I say,” NO WAY!”

      • Jason April 30, 2012, 7:55 pm

        My point wasn’t about turning backs to a situation rather, it’s about mitigating confusion. If you look at all of the highly charged bombardment we receive daily & compare it to 30 years ago, it is insane. The purpose for me saying to turn off the computer is to gain real world perspective instead of being influenced by a skewed reality being pawned off as legit.

        If you look around, people are in a constant state of distraction. More than ever before people possess hand held devices (Ipad type tablets, smart phones etc) which are computers. Apple Computer Company alone posted over a 13 BILLION dollar profit the first quarter this year – a record, & predominantly due to iPad & iPhone sales.

        Obama could or would not produce a birth certificate or his posted grades at Harvard – normal & easily produced items, and the constant distractions clouded the persistent questions to produce the documents. Again, 30 years ago that would have been an outrage & criminal.

        What you may not get is the claims of Obama being endorsed by the Communists has minimal impact on our numbed world – hell, he was elected President of the most powerful nation in the world with almost no experience. Blindness has become the new 20/20.

        While it may not be possible for you to turn your back on on the imprisoned, aside from praying for them, your ability to make any difference on those situations is impossible because tomorrow, their exposure will be replaced by something else.

        All we can do is float along, hope things change & protect our minds in the meantime.

        • KC April 30, 2012, 10:26 pm


          I remember what you wrote about in the Nuclear War post, a couple of weeks back towards the end of the thread, something that has stuck with me; TPTB won’t let it happen because it is not in their personal interest for something of that magnitude to happen on that scale. This being said, so the only way it could reasonably happen; is by other means, by an event which would dwarf even the Herculean efforts of all those parties involved in the TPTB, an event like the containment vessel at Fukushima Daiichi unit 4 will fail, resulting in the evacuation of the Greater Tokyo Metropolitan Area, this would cause a disaster in the scale beyond any human agency or any combination of agencies thereof. Please remember the permanent evacuation of 35,682,460 people would break any government or corporation. Where would the refugees go? Not to other areas of Honshu Island proper, would they be evacuated to Hokkaidō, Kyūshū, Shikoku or Okinawa? Since Japan’s population is already 92,116,540 besides Metro Toyko there’s no where anyone is going to settle 36 million people, in Japan Prime, this means that overseas re-location is now a foreseeable reality for those 36 million people. Where are they going to go? Most Asians still remember World War II with painful hateful collective cultural memory, so they won’t be re-located somewhere in Eastern Asia. Australia doesn’t have the resources to even feed that number which would more than double the population of the entire continent. So the answer would be either Russian Siberia or the West Coast of North America, or parcel the refugees out to all nations who would take them in. Again World War II still brings up bitter feelings with many throughout the world, especially the record of the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy being less than humanitarian in their conduct of the war. So I’m keeping my attention on that containment vessel at Fukushima Daiichi unit 4, hoping to God himself that is doesn’t fail and that the clean-up will eventually be successful for everyone. However like you stated two weeks ago, the so-called “SHTF” won’t happen unless they, the TPTB want it to, Jason; thanks for the reality check.

          • Jason May 1, 2012, 5:03 am


            I’m going to take a stab in the dark with your comment here ….

            I think you are confusing personal feelings with the disposition of the displacement of some 37,000,000 people & the goals & objectives of The Powers That Be (TPTB). With the exception of the Jews, if people die or are scattered throughout the world is, at best, inconvenient for TPTB – in fact, I believe those potential immigrants or their loss are immaterial to the overall goal of TPTB.

            It seems like people like you (nothing personal) take their point of view & knowledge base, which contains extreme & self-imposed limits & apply it to a greater problem in order to come up with some solution. The problem is we don’t know what we don’t know.

            Example: the invention of airbags & air curtains. Bear with the example for a moment, it is a contextual illustration.

            First we had acceptable deaths in auto accidents for 40 + years. Then lap belts were invented that saved millions of lives. That evolved into shoulder straps, then limit or tension switches to halt forward momentum & that saved millions more lives & problem solved … so we thought. We still had losses that were deemed, by default, acceptable.

            Then outside of the blue (box) comes the idea of an instantaneous pneumatic device that can even save even more lives from an entirely different direction. Who’d a thought? Out of nothingness comes a great solution.

            Again, the point being is we don’t know what we don’t know so why limit possibilities?

            People in Japan may be at a stand still waiting to see IF the containment will take place yet, most involved have already begun to extrapolate what to do just in case the worst happens. And just like good managers, TPTB watch & wait to see how things resolve themselves before stepping in with any kind of aid. It is called mitigate loss in order to increase profit. The god of this world is the accumulation of wealth.

            Also, the world’s opinion of the Japanese today has almost nothing to do with the Japan of the 1940’s, nearly a full generation ago. They have contributed far more to the world than they took since WW II & that has altered or buried past reputations.

            Besides, who was the bigger Satan – them for their vicious attacks on us, the allies & their treatment of POW’s OR the US for leveling 2 of their biggest cities primarily comprised of innocent, non combatants with the only use of WMD’s? We were the bullies dressed in the innocence of white & eliminated a threat for good … and people in this country cheered at that sick resolution.

            For Biblical reasons I keep my eye on Israel because what happens there will ultimately make or break our world. This is THE sign post of the end times.

            Should our muslim President get re-elected & push to move away from their support & align with the Arab states in a permanent position (pact) against Israel, then kiss the US good bye in a short decade. No amount of prepping will save you from that fallout because God’s now fragile blessing upon this nation will evaporate. No amount of money or power will be able to save this nation. America will become one giant Detroit – a land of past greatness, hope & splendor now a war zone filled with dogs eating each other.

            TPTB are right to assume they are the god(s) of this world because they are, but their reign will be short lived then destroyed at some near future point by the Creator Himself … and as the Bible says, EVERY knee shall bow … and trust me, there will be NO EXCEPTIONS.

            Trying to battle against the Almighty is like arming yourself with an umbrella against a 100′ title wave about to crash on you … good luck with that one.

          • T.R. May 1, 2012, 11:42 am

            The Russians wont take them for the same reasons the Chinese wont . Not to be an ass , but seriously , I would rather replace every Mexican immigrant , with a Japanese any day . It would actually improve the country instead of help it rot . Just sayin .

      • PS for Cold Warrior May 1, 2012, 9:59 am

        • KC May 1, 2012, 9:58 pm


          With respect, have you ever lived in Asia for a period longer than one year? I have and knowing several nationalities of Asian People all with the exception of the North Koreans absolutely detest the idea of Japanese People living among them as neighbors. Russian Siberia won’t take them due to the latent Slavic supremacy that has been emerging since Putin was “elected” to the office of Prime Minister around the turn of the century. However I will acknowledge that “we don’t know, what we don’t know.” However even the densest of us can catch when the TPTB make the occasional mistake. Not to subscribe to the Alex Jones/Mike Ruppert school of consipracy theory, but when certain events happen, little peaks behind the curtain become evident. I highly doubt that any American President (with the exception of FDR) would ever openly side with any Muslim Dominated Nation-State, because they know that the S-PACs and focus groups would galvanize public opinion against said counter-productive efforts. In regards to Israel and its survival as a nation state, is virtually guaranteed unto the actual end of the world in the literal sense and not just the end of human civilization, due to the efforts of countless persons who have made it their sole reason for being.

          • Jason May 2, 2012, 4:43 am


            I guess I need to isolate some thoughts here …

            1. To say that ALL neighbors of the Japanese hate them as neighbors or having them living in their land is like saying all Americans who live in the South hate blacks & detest them living on or within their borders.

            There is no evidence that I am aware of that shows border disputes among these rival nations or newsworthy events that suggests the same. What we all know is the North Koreans hate the South Koreans & the evidence is quite clear – but the Japanese?

            Second, you are projecting about events based upon a limited point of view & subsequent conjecture, stating that TPTB are making a mistake … about something that has not taken place. How is it possible to make a mistake about something that has not happened?

            Making assumptions & gross, broad brush generalizations was the thrust of my first post & my nuclear war comment to you. Moreover, threading the needle regarding the economic collapses of countries such as Greece, Spain, Argentina, Iceland & whomever else as evidence for the eventual collapse of the American economy is absolutely absurd. It seems people look to the horizon, see difficulties & assume the sky is falling here without bothering to look up to see if it actually is.

            “TPTB” in the purest form is about one thing – the accumulation of gold. So if the Japanese were forced to relocate to a “hostile” state, enough gold would calm those savage beasts.

            2. The only thing you & I see “behind the curtain” of TPTB is either what has been made available to see and or what is behind their curve. Things have been planned so far in advance that in many cases they actually create economic history. Don’t be naive thinking that any of us can make a difference or sway “their” future outcomes because it is 100% impossible.

            I happen to know a considerable amount about the banking world & 6 years ago I got a good, inside look at the condition of the failed mortgage loan business on a very large scale with a couple of the big players.

            I was sure, based upon my understanding & observation of real time events that these institutions would collapse, without question, because they were well beyond the tipping point. I had seen it in the late 80’s & mid 90’s & the 2006 numbers were growing 4 times greater.

            I figured all it would take is a mass exodus trend from defaulted homeowners (a mere 10% more) and the suicide train was a 100% certainty. Even the MSM was running scared – remember? So what happened?

            Absolute brilliance – they (the big 4 banks) turned their own tide. They allowed many mortgages to go unpaid while quieting the masses, modify loans at a 50% discount to stop the flow of blood, lower interest rates to stimulate consumer borrowing and more.

            While a puny & limited mind like mine thought it was the end, I began to see things from a completely different angle – while I was standing behind the curtain watching the Wizard of Oz at work. What I did not know what I did not know was the black & white I knew or assumed was actually was comprised of many colors and textures. What was even more mind blowing is us taxpayers were bailing out private enterprise to the tune of a trillion dollars.

            3. Now about Obama siding with Arab States against Israel … as stated prior, blindness is the new 20/20. Get this historical FACT – Barack Obama became elected as the US President with zero experience & it is highly likely that he is not a natural born citizen thus, breaking the law. Never in American history has that happened or even come close.

            He is an outspoken, proud Muslim, it has been photographically documented that he does not respect our flag or our pledge of allegiance yet, for some reason we cannot see the physical evidence. He has made inroads already with the Arab States, appointed radical Muslim leaders in charge of sensitive US positions like the Department of Homeland Security, publicly scoffed at border security (all recorded on film) and so many cannot see that danger. Why? It would seem some veil has been placed over the eyes of common sense.

            Also, you can’t really be serious to believe focus groups will have any impact on these agendas? They cannot get a foothold in the game let alone stand in the batters box. People have asked, begged, sued, demanded his birth certificate & outright refusal & concealment has taken place for many, many months only to have a highly suspect document produced.

            This is an absolute outrage that 40 years ago would have landed a guy like this in prison for sure but today, we cannot differentiate the forest from the trees. Sadly today, the term “focus group” is an oxymoron.

            4. Israel ….

            The Jews are & have been God’s chosen people. Fact – there is no other culture that has stayed intact in world – no other. Not to mention the Jews have been the target of virtually of every culture on the planet to be eliminated. They were thrown from their homeland (once again) in 70 A.D., scattered throughout the world until 1948 when they recaptured Israel. Name another culture that has endured or accomplished this feat.

            Jesus the Jew, claimed to be God in the flesh, had a 3 year ministry, wrote no books of the Bible & look at the impact He made then & today. He divided A.D from B.C. and continues to expand that influence from a short 3 year ministry? ALL 12 disciples were tortured & went to their death & could not deny Him. Do you know what the odds of that is? Astronomical.

            Why do the Arabs, Iraqis, Iranians, Syrians, Turks etc hate them & want them to be eliminated? They have not flexed their muscles against them, they do not have vast oil reserves or incredible natural resources. It is the Jews themselves that are the target. Why didn’t Hitler try to eliminate or solely target Catholics? Israel has aways been the target for land control & the elimination of that race – doesn’t that strike you as strange or odd?

            The Bible is incredibly clear as to the reason(s) why & is clearly a book of history written in advance. I won’t go into the details except to say that the book of Revelation, Ezekiel, Daniel & others have described in detail & thousands of years ago, the events that have & are taking place today. Don’t believe me, do your own research & see if the Bible is wrong.

            I do not worry about or give much credence or worrisome thoughts to most world events because they are of little value to me. The disposition of Israel is the bellwether of the true end of times scenario & being a sold out, Bible believing, born again Christian, I find it exciting knowing that I may be witness to it in my lifetime.

    • T.R. May 1, 2012, 11:50 am

      Hey friend ,
      I agree with your statement for the most part . Things were better before the internet and cell phones , far better . Its not all bad though , I guess its the application of it thats bad . Its like drinking , a little bit on occasion is good , letting it take over and becoming an alcoholic is bad . Some is good , like in a survivalist sort of way , like having a Kindel or Ipad and a solar recharger to read your .pdf library on flash drives instead of hundreds of pounds of manuals or books , the latter may not be practical if your having to move around .

      • Jason May 1, 2012, 12:39 pm

        You are correct, moderation is the way to go. Technology provides many great benefits however, in this context of our dysfunctional world & trying to figure out whom to point the finger at, many get lost. Also, the pure availability & the associated temptation with the Internet is more the issue for me. (Internet porn for example, is now billion dollar business, largely unregulated & growing exponentially by the year).

        Everyday I have a ritual of going to my local Starbucks for a coffee & chat with a few locals. It never fails that 100% of the time I see people walking around looking down at their phone & texting – even with small children in tow. I see at least 50% of the people at traffic lights or driving for that fact, either texting or on their phones talking.

        The example this link points out the addiction is real –


        More sadly, interacting with people in real time is fogged by that Internet tether. Kids hunt & fish less, bike riding is an undesirable chore & playing ball in the street is just plain old boring.

        BTW, I own an iPad & it is a tool for work BUT the danger of getting sucked in by the apps is very real and I avoid it at all costs.

        • T.R. May 1, 2012, 4:04 pm

          Absolutely right , it would be an easy matter for a computer chip installed that makes the cell phone inoperable if it detects that you are moving faster than a human can walk . Problem solved . It is dumbing out our society and making our attention span dangerously short . Its also creating a sociopathic society .

  • Michael April 30, 2012, 2:12 pm

    “When Do You Think TS will HTF?”

    In Detroit about 1967.

    The shit hit the fan back in the 80’s, we just didn’t know it. Debit spending, bubble economies, and just flat out ignoring all those jobs getting shipped off shore, allowed us to pretend everything was fine until 2007.

    I don’t believe that there’s going to be some giant cataclysm or that martial law’s going to be imposed. I do think that the shit’s already hit the fan. The question is, is will your area collapse or adapt. In many places like Detroit, Flint, Gary IN, Buffalo, they’ve already collapsed. When Katrina hit New Orleans we saw what happens when a natural disaster hits a city that’s already collapsed.

    We’re kicking along OK out here in the Pacific Northwest. Since we were settled last much of our infrastructure is newer than most of the country’s. Things aren’t quite as dilapidated. Having more hydro power than we need is a plus as well. But, we are starting to see break downs in families, murder-suicides seem to be on the rise.

    Different areas will be effected differently as things fall apart and reorganize. The Pacific Northwest with lots of hydro-power and an export economy looks like it will come though things OK. Some of the small to mid-sized Rust-Belt cities that fell apart back in the ’70’s and 80’s are looking pretty good. I’m bullish on Pittsburgh. The upper mid-west has some places that should do alright. Eau Claire Wisconsin and Dubuque Iowa ought to come through things alright.

  • Michael April 30, 2012, 2:13 pm

    Debt spending… Stupid spell check.

  • SLHaynes April 30, 2012, 2:34 pm

    This year and very soon. May 1 is communist celebration day and the occupiers will be out in force. This false flag event will bring enough clashes to cause a federal crack down of the people (martial law). There will be no election this year and that’s all she wrote, civil war is here.

  • Winston Smith April 30, 2012, 4:04 pm

    The bigger question is whether it will be a slow, grinding collapse or a sudden, rapid descent? I tend to see it as a combination of the two. Right now, and for at least the last 10 years, it has been the grinding collapse. However, soon a tipping point will be reached after which the can can no longer be kicked down the road and the whole thing will fail. To what extent, I don’t know. I tend to believe that it will not be a situation of total chaos, at least not for long. This is too advanced a civilization for it to all die at once. Order will be restored, but the bigger question will be the kind of order that will rise from the ashes. It could either go two ways: A new system much like the original intent of the framers of the US Constitution in which the federal government has a very limited role and the state and local governments do all of the real governing or a totalitarian police state with limited civil rights in the name of order. Looking at world history I tend to think it’s the latter. Most people will gladly sacrifice liberty for security when placed in a disorderly, chaotic situation like war. I think that those in power realize this and will let it descend into chaos in order to use the cries for a return to normalcy to cement their power over the people.

    The new system will include a new monetary system comprised of an entirely digital currency that will be transacted through a RFID chip embedded under the skin. Gun rights will be revoked, and free speech will no longer exist. The internet will be heavily monitored and require a sign in through the ID chip in order to use it. This way, the government can monitor the speech of individuals and preemptively remove them from society before they can spread dissent. All vehicles will be required to have an RFID chip on them, possibly embedded in their license plates, so that all vehicle traffic can be monitored and controlled by the state. This will allow for the monitoring of older vehicles as well as newer ones with built in telematics systems like OnStar. Food consumption will be rationed and monitored ostensibly in order to combat obesity and diabetes, but really to keep the serfs productive and prevent them from becoming an excessive drain on the state. Private property rights will disappear and the state will assign you a housing unit. This will also help to keep people in line by not allowing them to cultivate food or drugs in sufficient enough amounts to allow them to become independent of the system. Some people will grumble and complain, but most will comply. After all, we have been conditioned to do so.

  • Riccola April 30, 2012, 4:49 pm

    Sometime in 2014 when Obama starts his fundamental transformation into high gear. He and his Soros funded Occupy friends will be coming for your stuff. Stock up now!

    • Cold Warrior April 30, 2012, 5:53 pm

      Socicalism has killed over 125 million in the last 90+ years. They have had plenty of practice controling large groups of people and you are right, they will come for more than our stuff.

  • DaaSwampman April 30, 2012, 5:30 pm

    Do not underestimate how long Government can kick the can down the road or how willing most people are willing to believe it. Our society is so weak that most anything could bring it down. If we are lucky then something like a pandemic could clear the slate rather fast and allow for a rebuilding. If we are unlucky then the slow spiral to grinding poverty and more Government is our future. What most people refuse to see is that the elite are right – we can’t govern ourselves. We have had over two hundred years to prove exactly that. Perhaps next time we will realize that voting and citizenship are not rights, but something each person must earn. Think how different our country would be if nothing was given and everything was earned. To answer your questing I think the unwinding has started and all hell will break loose within five years. Swamp

    • T.R. April 30, 2012, 7:27 pm

      Problem with elitism , is that its a form of fascism , Hitler and Stalin come to mind . They are not right , they think they have the right to rule like dictators , we had a revolution to throw off a king . I still believe in the constitution and what our forefathers fought for to form this country . If we stuck to that , we would be in good shape . most are in their position because they inherited everything and never worked an honest day in their life , inheritance is a wind fall , they didnt earn a dime of it either . Also the Constitution does say voting is a right , and unless Im wrong , you are a citizen of any nation to where you are born . You dont have to claim the country …. but it claims you . After all , they want your taxes , and body to fight whatever conflict they choose to dable in . The country is weak , but Jefferson also predicted that every now and again the tree of liberty would have to be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants . Look at how many bloody civil wars and internal wars european countries have had starting after the collapse of the Roman empire , they are still there , we will be too after all the dust settles . I guess its all perspectives . Prep on !

  • KBRO April 30, 2012, 6:19 pm

    We have 7 Starbucks in the city I live in of around 80,000 people. So when all those close down because people stop spending $5 for coffee everyday some times more, then I will worry about the economy. I will happen someday. Look at all the other Countries that are in so much trouble. The USA has some time to go. But prep like there is no tomorrow. Anything can happen!

  • T.R. April 30, 2012, 6:55 pm

    I dont think its going to . At least not in the dramatic sense that a lot of doomers write about . Yes several things could happen but I think it will be slow and subtle . Unless we go to war against somebody that can actually defend themselves ( I.E. they have an air force , a navy , and a strong standing army ) requiring emergency wartime changes like in WW2 . Economic collapse will hurt , but historically , that forces strong nationalism and a degree of isolationism ( we could probably use that , especially the isolationism ) . I fear the left , but we can still counter them as of now .

  • ray April 30, 2012, 8:13 pm

    No man knows the day or the hour ; not even the son or the angels, but only GOD. Ya do the best ya can, love your wife and kids. Try to put somthin’ by . dig in, hang on . might be a long , bumpy road .

  • noisynick April 30, 2012, 8:37 pm

    Wondering when TSHTF will happen is alot like worrying about death. The difference one is enevitable for humans and the other
    can happen or not based on Human behavior.
    Do what you can when you can to prepare for what concerns you most and then live your life……Its short enough already.

  • DaaSwampman April 30, 2012, 9:01 pm

    Inheritance is not a wind fall. It means that someone before you had what it takes to succeed. That was usually through hard work and risks. I am not part of the one percent, but I know we need them. Ever work for a poor person? Ever see a poor person build a factory and hire people?

    “Our society is so weak that most anything could bring it down.” While our Government is weak, our society is much weaker. We have lost our values and respect. We want someone to give us everything that we are too lazy and useless to do for ourselves. When it hits the fan – watch the myth of the melting pot go poof. The fractures in this society will make Iraq look like childs play.

    Read your history and you will find that being a citizen is not always automatic and it can be taken away from you.

    The cold hard truth is that there are billions of people that cannot support themselves, those working cannot support, and no nation wants or needs them. The system will fail and the only individual answer is to become as self reliant as possible. Swamp

  • George May 1, 2012, 12:34 am

    In the 80’s when the ma and pa retirement funds started to break the million mark the millionaires decided that that just wasn’t right to have the commoners in the same class as they were. We started seeing runaway inflation. The started to adjust the inflation rate by factoring out the cost to produce energy and fuel, the two biggest inflationary items we have. Now fast forward to the here and now. Wages for the 98% are not keeping up with the inflation. We have smoke and mirrors economic advisors trying to keep the truth form us by putting a rose coloreds glasses spin on things.
    When you actually start looking at the real numbers and factoring out all of the chaff and fluff it starts to look dismal. The unemployment numbers are a sham. Those who have lost their benefits are no longer counted. It is an election year and no one wants to look bad with that number. Housing markets are going to drop even lower as the job sector takes another hit. It will be artificially propped up until after the election. Sometime around then it will start to fall apart. Some country somewhere will detonate to nukes 25 miles above the US and it will take down the grid and black out most of North America. And when the sky bleeds red you will have a year to get back to the wilderness. for the next 10 years it will get pretty ugly and then it will straighten out.
    I hope and pray that the elders are wrong, The Mayans, the Hopi, and several others.

  • GARY May 1, 2012, 1:23 pm

    I think that it already has hit the fan,but the blowback is slow in comming,thereby giving us a slightly longer time to prep, but this is only the first stage.My motto has always been better safe than sorry when dealing with preping for unpredictable situations so I try to keep it light and portable while managing all the basics.remember if it does get real bad that you need to bug-out, you probably won,t be driving much if at all and you will need to carry all of your things on your back,so no luxuries just the survival(life sustaining)basics

    • T.R. May 1, 2012, 9:50 pm

      Agreed ,
      bug out to me is a last resort action , your ability to operate a vehicle may be limited at that point . A small 4wd such as a jeep that is equipped for heavy off road or a quad may be your best option once you get out .

  • Old As Dirt May 2, 2012, 4:08 pm

    What type breakdown? We live on the wrong side of the tracks in the suburbs of a major city. We watch the number using food stamps or other aids at the grocery and fear when the trucks stop rolling. There will be riots in the streets when the easy money stops. I have lived hand to mouth before and know the signs of people who have nothing left to fall back on. I fear for them and for us who have prepared. Its been a diet of beans rather than steak but we have something left over when the pension check comes around again.

  • Jeff May 2, 2012, 4:56 pm

    I have to agree somewhat with Tim above. I think things will happen gradually. Just like a frog will boil to death if the temperature is brought up slowly. People tend to accept things after a while as things go South. I am 60 years old and things that would have never been allowed by us when I was young (abortion, gay rights) is considered totally normal today. I believe that Christ will return soon, but how bad things will get before His return no one really knows. I believe that if our present president is re-elected, things will get bad fast. Being disabled, I do what I can to prepare, but for me, I worry far more for my wife and children. Our society has fallen so far already. My advice for people is to be silent about their preps and be careful who you listen to. No offense to anyone, but I believe their are a lot of money grabbers out there that are using the present circumstances to line their pockets. If the EOTWAWKI really happens, what good is cash money going to do? So I have to think that most don’t really believe what they push anyway. How the SHTF I don’t really know, but as of now, I think the best bet is Economic.
    Good luck to all and God Bless.

  • BillyB May 3, 2012, 9:24 am

    A) Obama wins this November: TS will HTF in one year from TODAY.
    B) Romney wins this November: I give it 6 to 8 years.
    C) Gigantic (larger than Chixulub) asteroid hits Earth on Friday, thus making any prepping moot.

    • Jason May 3, 2012, 4:46 pm

      D. We walk outside & get hit by a semi truck doing 90 mph, then all is moot.

      Moral? We should count our blessings & live a little.

  • sillyMe May 7, 2012, 10:01 am

    We ARE in the great depression many people fear will happen. The reason it isn’t more obvious is simply that the government is using their “credit card” to spend money and make it seem not quite so bad. But like a family that is broke, out of work and facing bankruptcy using their credit card to push off the inevitable only makes the end game worse. Prior to 2007 when the federal deficit was getting smaller each year and the total national debt while high seemed at least possible to pay off a fiscal disaster seemed unlikely. But today with $6 trillion added to the national debt in just over 3 years and deficits running around $1.5 trillion a year a fiscal disaster is inevitable. When? Impossible to know because the government has the credit card and until credit is denyed them they can push this out into the future for months maybe years longer. The only two political factors affecting this event is the November election and the new administration. Obama will spend as much money as needed to prevent the collapse prior to November, but after the election win or lose who knows what he might do then. And of course in January of 2013 if a new administration takes over the confusion and different strategy could crash the system. Those two dates are the most likely tipping points for an economic crash.

    • Jason May 7, 2012, 3:05 pm

      The other night I was watching a documentary on Netflix called Cocaine Cowboys which talked about the rise of the trafficking to the US in the early 70’s through the 90’s. 

      There were several MSM news headlines in the movie that flashed from 1980 that spoke of a total economic collapse here in the US. Interest rates were at 18-21%, the government reported unemployment was at 12%, housing market was collapsing etc.

      I remember this time very well because I was in my late 20’s & had been tracking trends for several years at that point. I had a couple of very high profile clients from the entertainment business who saw only opportunity & made millions in this depressed market – even though all I could see was the end of the world economically. What I saw made absolutely no sense, but what I came to understand was nothing was as it appeared.

      Point being & at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I maintain that it is all a game of economic dominance & it has very little to do with governments. Further, as crazy as it sounds, I believe all of this is “end times” influence is part of the shell game to get us looking away from what Is really going on. I truly believe the world is flat, economically speaking. 

      It seems far too cold & calculated however, people who are in pulling the strings do not see anything but how to corner the world’s financial power & “we” are expendable to a degree, a means to their end – BUT highly integral to amassing wealth. 

      Think of a professional football team – hire he best players, use them, abuse them, feed them money to really propel more non pros to raise their personal game game in hopes of the big dollars. So who wins that ultimate financial game? The franchise owners because all of the backend dollars we never see are enormous. The ex players drift off into their respective abysses while being replaced by new, stronger gladiators who can only last an average now of 3 years. So the game? Entertain people to drive revenue in by the truck load – not much else really matters in the final analysis. Cold, calculated & reality.

      We are purely serfs but can still better our positions by not buying into the “end of the world” mindset because it only hurts you while waiting for the sky to fall. It’s a no win situation except here in the US we still have the best opportunity to create a better life & future security.

      • sillyMe May 10, 2012, 1:08 am

        Maybe. No one can predict the future. But the problem with the secenario you propose is you run the risk of “fighting the last war”. That is applying tactics that would have worked well last time but this time no matter how familiar (or not) it seems may well be quite different. I don’t have good answers or suggestions except for this one: Today you can buy a years supply of food in the supermarket. Thanks to the prepper movement you can buy #10 cans of freeze dried food in Walmart. You can buy buckets of wheat in many stores. If you buy a years supply of food for your family and nothing bad happens then eat the food and chock it up to experience. But if TSHTF that years supply of food could save your families lives. So there is one thing you can do today to prepare just in case. If 5-10 years from now nothing bad has happened this will all seem silly and we can get together over drinks and laugh at out silliness just as we all did about Y2K. But what will you do once the stores are closed and the shelves are empty? The only thing I’m doing different now then a year or two ago is I’m buying better food, that is not just wheat and beans but good freeze dried food and decent canned food as well as canning my own food.

        • Jason May 10, 2012, 3:13 pm

          I don’t argue with preparation prudence because it is fundamentally wise, it is the speculated reasons behind it that creates much of the thrust behind my comments. I often refer to 2 events I experienced in my life – the oil embargo of the early 70’s & the aforementioned 1980 economic crash. During those times it could have been easily argued that a worldwide economic crash was on the doorstep, far closer than today. Can you imagine sitting a line for gas for as much as an hour AND every other day, to buy a maximum of 10 gallons? No riots or people being shot – people simply adapted.

          Why is today’s economic issues any different? Two things make it different: we are in this perceived hurricane AND the Internet is so pervasive with information, opinions, speculations – all without any system of checks & balances. Blog A can claim most anything & find information to support its point of view while Blog B can state the opposite AND have equal ” credible” sourcing. So whom do you believe?

          If you eliminated the Internet, what would be true? I’ve worked with banks & individuals in financial crisis & what’s true for them is the world is caving in however on the flip side, some banks are posting record profits & many individuals who were bankrupt less than 5 years ago are exceedingly far further ahead than ever. How can that be possible unless what we are experiencing is more of an illusion or acquired mindset. As I am fond of saying – believing is seeing.

          To support my point of view or position, I’ll use a battle front as an example. There are specific strategies to defeating an enemy & contextually it is best to keep the enemy confined to a specific position or moving in the direction the superior force wants them to go. The use of distractions such as high volume or pitched noises will keep a human frozen & move them into fight or flight – either way, they are out of control AND being controlled by the superior force.

          Now take this context & apply it to my pseudo theory of the very few trying to control or corner the world’s economic wealth. Create or amplify anything that can be a distraction & waltz in & take what you want with little or meaningful opposition. I fully believe that is the case & long term goal of the likes of the World Bank etc.

          Example: Buried in the Obama Healthcare Bill, all 2,000 + pages, is tax reform clauses that begin the elimination of home mortgage interest deductions. Why? More dollars to the Federal Reverse, a privately owned entity. What does this have to do with health care??

          My point has always revolved around time & energy of the individual because it is not only a real cost but it is the only thing we can control. It is very possible to do well in this economy as long as we focus what is in front of us & those possibilities instead of that with which we can do nothing about like the fall of Greece as an example. We are definitely in a brave new world where adapting is imperative.

          It would seem that many do not want any more information to spoil the position they have invested so much time into achieving. Seems many people today WANT to believe in a mirage so badly they willingly drink the sand because they were told it was water …. and very few question it.

          • sillyMe May 14, 2012, 12:28 am

            Here is one major difference between today and 1980: The national debt is just shy of $16 trillion, and likely to rise by another 2 or 3 trillion before congress and a new president could get it under control IF they really tried (which seems unlikely). The math is undisputable. We cannot pay of $16-18 trillion no matter what we do. Once the inflation begins to be more obvious and out of control interest rates WILL go up if not to “normal” rates then perhaps even to 1980 rates. Do you have any idea what the interest on the national debt would/will be then? It will be more then we spend on Social security, medicare and medicaid combined. We cannot pay the interest and we cannot pay the debt down. We will be bankrupt. It will make the “great depression” look insignificant. This isn’t speculation or deja vu 1980. This is a mathematical certainty. It WILL happen, we just don’t know when, how bad it will get and what our leaders will do to us trying to “fix” it.

          • Jason May 14, 2012, 4:34 am

            There is another BIG difference between 1980 & today …

            Assuming your 16 trillion dollar figure is correct – do you know who holds over 50% 0f the IOU’s for America’s debt? Private institutions of America – the Federal Reserve, Private Investments & Savings Bonds etc.

            See #1 & 3 in the link below:


            If what you espouse is so blatantly true then:

            1. Why haven’t we folded yet?
            2. Why haven’t we had runs on the banks, precious metals etc?

            You are thinking in a tiny, arithmetic box, which the only possible solution is failure. There is so much information you do not have & you don’t know what you don’t know.

            The peak default rate for banks in 1933 was 15.4%. Today’s banks are running 22% default & have been for a year. Therefore given that the ratios are 50% higher, we are in a Greater Depression, right? Sure seems pretty rosy in the world today …..

            (BTW, the national debt in 1986 was 2+ trillion dollars).

            B of A announced Friday that they were going to forgive nearly 23 billion on mortgage loans that are currently under water. Chase & Wells post record profits, how can they possibly do that if they are failing? Because things aren’t as it appears.

            The problem is people like you (nothing personal) speculate coming events with 50% of the information which has been twisted & bent by others who know very little.

            The whole process is a minimax algorithm, to grossly simplify things – it is a game & those with the gold will, eventually, make the rules.

            Written in 1975 & filmed in 1976, this clip encapsulates things well & is quite prophetic:


            Same film, same year & note the issues he discusses:


            So tell me, what’s really changed?

            As much as you don’t like hearing this, what is destroying America is our culture has placed greed, sexual immorality & much more ahead of God. I believe we are past the tipping point & that hedge of protection & massive blessings that God, Himself has bestowed upon this nation will slowly vanish.

            That writing is so clear & there is abundant historical evidence that judgement will come & there will be no preparing for that other than getting right with God and even then, one may still suffer.


            “Indisputable” may have been a better choice of words ….

  • DrRus May 13, 2012, 7:58 pm

    An economic trouble will not lead to TS hitting TF.

    Let’s not forget that just a couple of generations ago was the Great Depression and there was no TEOTWAWKI, neither there was one during the World Wars when people were starving and dying by the millions.

    EMP is another great scenario for writing a book, but not likely to happen.

    TS will hit TF when the oil runs out, period. No one has any idea how much we have, since the Arabs and the Ruskies don’t publish such information; and if they would – would you trust them? When the oil runs out (probably in 10 years max) – say hello to TEOTWAWKI. The 18-wheelers can’t run on electricity or coal and there wouldn’t be enough time to convert the whole system to natural gas.

    • sillyMe May 14, 2012, 12:35 am

      “The Green River Formation–an assemblage of over 1,000 feet of sedimentary rocks that lie beneath parts of Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming–contains the world’s largest deposits of oil shale,”Anu K. Mittal, the GAO’s director of natural resources and environment said in written testimony submitted to the House Science Subcommittee on Energy and Environment. “USGS estimates that the Green River Formation contains about 3 trillion barrels of oil, and about half of this may be recoverable, depending on available technology and economic conditions,” Mittal testified.

      “The Rand Corporation, a nonprofit research organization, estimates that 30 to 60 percent of the oil shale in the Green River Formation can be recovered,” Mittal told the subcommittee. “At the midpoint of this estimate, almost half of the 3 trillion barrels of oil would be recoverable. This is an amount about equal to the entire world’s proven oil reserves.”

      • Jason May 14, 2012, 3:11 am

        Not to mention what BP has found in the Gulf of Mexico.

        • Jason May 14, 2012, 4:45 am


          “Peak Oil” is a mythical concept, probably created by oil companies so they can massively profit by fooling most into believing we have projected shortages.

          What a brilliant game!

      • DrRus May 14, 2012, 7:57 am

        “…USGS estimates that the Green River Formation contains about 3 trillion barrels of oil, and about half of this may be recoverable, depending on…”

        That’s a mighty lot of “maybe-s” :)


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