Raising a Prepared Kid

We’ve all seen them. Teenagers with a spare tire (or two), struggling to walk through the air conditioned mall.  12 year olds glued to their phones and Facebook.  College students who don’t know where chicken nuggets come from. Two working parents, excessive media/electronics, unhealthy food, overly medicated; there’s plenty of blame to go around, but that’s not what I want to focus on with this post.  I believe all of us have the power to change this trend.  Indeed, if it’s to be changed before it’s too late, it has to be us.  The gov’t can’t. Schools are, more often than not, overpriced daycares. Parents don’t seem to understand that the ‘better life’ they worked so hard to give their kids is instead making them fat and lazy.  It’s time we dusted off the village model.  As in, “it takes a village.”

Be a family – Do you have grand-kids or nieces/nephews that could use a fishing trip out past the reach of a wifi signal? Make time to make it happen, don’t wait for them to ask you for it. Do your younger relatives have hunter ed courses done? If their parents are too busy, why not make the arrangements and offer to help the youngster get that step done?  And don’t think the girls won’t be interested.  With my brother deployed in the middle east, I’m the only hunter under the age of 50 in my family.

Related: Best Water Filter Pitcher

Be a neighbor – Back to the village concept, it seems so many of us live too far away from relatives to take active roles in their lives.  It’s a good bet that the youngsters that live next door to you have the same problem in reverse, with their elders living too far away.   It can be hard to cross that line between family and old-guy-next-door, but I think with patience and the correct approach you could really make a difference.  If you can start out with things you can do at home, be it gardening or cleaning a gun or fixing a gutter, I think you can build up trust so their parents will be more comfortable letting you take their youngsters out to wilder locales. Local youth events, be it a fishing derby at the pond in town or youth hunt at a local farm would also seem to be nice stepping points.

Be a mentor – My county Pheasants Forever chapter has started a mentor program to do outreach to youth in the community.  These kinds of local mentor programs can be great for matching up outdoorsmen and outdoorswomen with youth who are in need of some quality time with nature.  They can help you get past the overprotective parents, with forms and permission slips and a “mentor selection process” that eases their worries of con-men or child snatchers.  The program in my county works with local high schools to target the invites to those youth that counselors feel could get the most good out of a mentor. So you won’t end up with a farmer’s kid who’s at home in the brush, you’ll end up with a mentee who might not own proper foot wear or protective gear.  This should be seen as an opportunity and not a drawback.

(photo credit)

Be a prepared parent – If you are lucky enough to still be parenting some youth, lead by example. Make time for outdoor pursuits and DIY projects. Involve your kids in them. Invite over co-worker’s kids, or the neighbor kids, or some kids from school.  Not so many that it’s a zoo, but enough to get a reputation as someone willing to work with youth. Other parents will notice. Youth will notice. Your own kids will soak it up even if they outwardly say eww, gross or uncool.

Related: Fluoride Removing Water Filters

Preparedness means more than just guns – Canning, preserving, first aid, community organizing, conservation, home economics, quilting… the list is long if you can’t/don’t hunt.  So much of this just isn’t taught in school anymore.  So much of it isn’t in practice with the generation that’s raising youth right now.  It certainly isn’t on Facebook.  If we don’t reach out to these youth they’ll never be exposed to it.  It takes a village, are you doing your part?

Calamity Jane

90 comments… add one
  • gat31 August 25, 2011, 9:38 am

    I was a city girl with grandparents in the country. I’ve actually cleaned chickens and rabbits, milked cows and goats, and picked my weight in peas and vegetables growing up. However, sadly, l lost my granma before l could learn how to can food and make a 5 course meal out of nothing and make the best biscuits on the planet. Unfortunately for my kids, l only just woke up to what was going on around me so they lost those experiences l could have exposed them to while they were young.
    The good news is l am trying to not make those mistakes with my grandchildren. Pulling the oldest one off the computer takes a will of God or a very interesting DIY project. the middle one will be out there in my garden in a heartbeat. The youngest 2 aren’t old enough yet to help but will when they can.
    I remember the first time l took my kids camping and made a fire from the wood in the woods and not store bought wood. They couldn’t believe it. My son from then on took it upon himself to learn to survive in the woods. He would take a tent, fishing pole, and a knife and be gone for 5 days. Somehow he always came back tanner and happier.
    Now it’s my goal to teach the grandkids how to fend for themselves and learn how to do as much “farming” activities as possible. Though to be honest, l’m not looking forward to the 1 yr old paint horse my daughter insists on getting for the boys to learn to ride. (that’s what the other grandmother is for lol) I agree with it takes a village though. That’s why l always opened the house to the kids to have supervision and make them listen to occasional life lessons as l deemed necessary. I’ve been “mom” to many many many kids over the last 25 years. I expect to be “granma” to many many more.

    Reply
  • wsc1964 August 25, 2011, 10:26 am

    You are a great addition to this site! Good advice certainly on the canning etc. I lived through Katrina and its aftermath. Having a Colt Python is comforting, but adequate food and water were necessary. Putting a tarp on a roof, nailing up plywood etc. all these skills are critical. Shooting is fun, but it will not help much if you have no other skills.

    Reply
  • Jason August 25, 2011, 10:53 am

    First thought out of the box for you Jane – you are a Domestic Terrorist with talk like this!! No cell phone, texting, Internet surfing indeed … how are we supposed to communicate with our kids?? I know, Jason you are sooo funny. 

    What a great article & thank you for this wonderful contribution. When I read the title I was anticipating commenting about being careful to not plant seeds of anxiety or fear, which many screwed up parents do because of all they bought into. What a crime against a young mind. 

    Our learning institutions have become so watered down & fearful to be “Politically Correct” & sensitive to the latest ACLU threats. I read an article a few months back about how a school principal had the arduous process & task to explain to a 6th grade >>boy<< and parents he (boy) SHOULD NOT wear girls pumps to school.  As my best friends dad was famous for saying: What – A – Bunch – Of – Horseshit!

    Where did we go wrong?

    When I was in college I quickly learned that the institutions for higher learning (higher meaning advanced – wink, wink) were about training the students for mediocrity. 

    What ever happened to creativity, have we become numbed down?

    I recently moved across town & created the cardinal sin of sins, I …. uh, did not hook up …. Internet or the cable TV  with it's 14 million channels of stupidity & distractions. I'll admit I had the DT's & shakes not being able to keep up with the Kardashians – yea right. BTW, Bruce Jenner sunk to a lifetime, permenant low – from a gold metal winning Olympic decathlete to an obvious face lift & on this trash show. Makes me proud to be an American, no wonder we're in trouble.  

    Anyway my new digs – my little guy actually plays outside with a dozen kids, rides a bike, scooter & played guns with sticks the boys found, now that's great. He comes in physically tired & no jelly belly. 

    Ok back to your valuable suggestion – this is a must for all kids because I feel strongly they need to be independent thinkers, dependent upon their own wits (not ideas created for them) & less interdependent upon using  their thumbs to communicate. Believe it or not, there is a lot of life outside the cable or cell feed.

    BTW, cutting off the cable TV & Internet is a two-way street, it forces a parent to be …. an interactive parent. I made a bulk purchase of ice cream for all of the neighborhood kids one day & hope that doesn't make me part of the Domestic Terrorist watch list. 

    And don't worry Gone With The Wind, it wasn't herbal ice cream …   

    Reply
    • Calamity Jane August 25, 2011, 11:32 am

      Jason,
      Yes, yes I am a domestic terrorist. Terrorizing all those who are weak minded or corporate shills or lazy. Apparently breathing fear into men everywhere. (Dear lord, please don’t let my wife be like Calamity…) hahahahaha
      Seriously though, I don’t think you can shelter kids from the fear and worry and stress that comes from living though a period of contraction and depression. I don’t advocate that you try. I can remember when I was growing up, I knew when my parents were fighting, I knew when finances were poor, I knew when jobs were shaky. I’m sure they tried to protect us kids from it, but if you’re dealing with a bright kid, or an empathetic one, they’ll know something’s up. I feel it’s better to include them (to the limit of their maturity and abilities of course,) and let them know what the problems are and how the family is working to mitigate them. If those mitigation strategies are something the children can help with or participate in, they can feel (rightly so) that they are helping and contributing and that leads to a lot of self confidence and self reliance.
      We cut the cable cord, and haven’t regretted it in years.

      Herbal ice cream can be quite yummy. I had a lavender ice cream that was tasty, and mint of course. I’ve heard of a garlic ice cream but haven’t tried it. :-D :-D :-D

      Reply
      • T.R August 25, 2011, 12:56 pm

        Calamity , you are a good addition to the site , gotta say tho , you dont scare me , Im used to Russian women now ( and prefer them to ours ) . Good article , thing is , I actually do think all but a few of our youth can be saved by people wanting to share . Thats negative but I see the main problem as laziness . Liberalism is another problem , parents cant discipline the kids anymore . In my day , if I needed a hard spanking , my dad or mom wouldn’t hesitate and society saw the value of it and I learned manors and boundaries because of it . Not so anymore , manors are becoming unknown in the United States , so are morals , when you have 13 year olds experimenting with sex and children having children , and a liberal media propaganda machine running full tilt , how do you even start to pull them out of the stew ? Add on top of that electronics , apathy , and entitlement . My girl is from the former Soviet Union , the stories she shared with me on how a tough existence shaped her values and thinking are profound . Our kids have no clue , no real parents , no idea what sacrifice is , or why we (had ) societal rules , any idea the world doesn’t revolve around them , or any clue that the world doesn’t owe them a living . Good luck ! a few can be saved , but the rest are going to become criminals , prostitutes and zombies .

        Reply
        • T.R August 25, 2011, 1:11 pm

          correction on my post , I meant to say all will self destruct except for the very few that can be saved . I agree with you but most people dont think like us .

          Reply
  • Jen August 25, 2011, 11:15 am

    The Appleseed Project is a great way to involve your kids with outdoor activities AND the history of our nation told in a way that engages them. In the process, when they pass the AQT they receive a rifleman’s patch and the confidence of being a very accurate shooter.

    Become involved in the Appleseed Project! If there is not one available in your area, it is very easy to get one set up yourself. I just did here in Rexburg, Idaho. It took three phone calls, a short application and an email.

    Look up Project Appleseed online.

    Reply
    • Calamity Jane August 25, 2011, 11:52 am

      Appleseed is kinda cool. Thanks for the reminder. I’d heard of it before, but never taken the time to look it up.

      Reply
  • GoneWithTheWind August 25, 2011, 11:19 am

    You forgot boy scouts. There is no better organization for getting kids prepared to survive hard times.

    I don’t “object” to herbal or organic. What I object to is the meme that it makes you healthier or cures diseases or in some way prevents all the bad things. I am an advocate for education and knowledge (not always the same thing). If tomorrow there were substantial scientific evidence that some herbal medicine or organic food actually did good things I would embrace it. My morning breakfast is oatmeal, the real oatmeal not the precooked. I believe it is good for me (and I like it). I drink a small glass of OJ every morning because it insures I get my vitamin C. I prepare two vegetables for dinner every night because I believe in eating a diverse and balanced diet (I eat vegetables and fruit at other times through out the day as well). I do eat more meat then I need and believe I should cut back somewhat on it. I love ice cream but do not buy it so that when I snack there is a slightly better chance I will choose an apple or something better for me. I do believe in eating a good diet I do not believe there are any magic foods or deadly foods. I enjoy McDonalds and other fast foods and always have. I did try low fat ice cream once and it was disgusting (flavor and texture).

    Reply
    • Crazy Stev-o August 25, 2011, 12:22 pm

      Gone with the wind,

      Boy Scouts of the 1970’s to early 1990’s were great. After that it was a bunch of wimps that it started pumping out. Not saying they all are or were, but most of them were handed their ranks, badges, etc. The guys I were in Boy Scouts in can not even start a fire without gas or even sharpen a knife properly. Just my thoughts on the Boy Scouts.

      Reply
      • Gobbedyjook August 25, 2011, 3:05 pm

        Agreed. Boy Scouts can’t be trusted. Watch out for them.

        Reply
      • GoneWithTheWind August 26, 2011, 8:23 pm

        I worked with the boy scouts for 12 years until my son turned 18. I went everywhere they did. We selected a troop that was committed to at least one camp trip a month. We dug snow caves to sleep in, climbed mountains, did 50 mile hikes, etc. Every kid did his part every kid cooked meals, it was a great education. A lot of fun too.

        Reply
      • Trinity September 10, 2011, 1:30 pm

        A million thanks for positng this information.

        Reply
    • Mel Saxon August 25, 2011, 3:40 pm

      You need to bone up more on what constitutes real nutrition. Upon whom are you counting to prove scientifically what constitutes a healthy diet? The FDA? Your general practitioner who had maybe 8 hours of dietary training in his big pharma supported school? There are over 100 vital nutrients that our bodies need to be optimally healthy and you can’t get them all from eating processed crap. Many can’t be had from food if it is grown in depleted or naturally deficient soil. Forget that government inspired food pyramid. I’ll guarantee you don’t get enough selenium, zinc or calcium. For your health and survival, delve into some alternative sources of information on personal health maintenance.

      Reply
      • Jason August 25, 2011, 6:59 pm

        Good one Mel, prepare to meet the very close minded one.

        Reply
        • Jason September 3, 2011, 7:22 pm

          Where in the hell does science come from, does it just materialize? By you own omission it comes from experts, remember those experts that removed your tumor? It was science based upon trial & error & experts that allowed you live & continue writing your silliness.   

          It is completely impossible to believe in science without believing experts.

          What you fail to see once again is your contridictions & dogmatic circle logic. 

          I did NOT have a genetic predisposition to heart disease yet, I had a heart issue & was sloely diet related. I actually proved it & was confirmed by a cardiologist, 2 independent heart surgeons, an Internist & world renown diet expert & head researcher of the Jonas Salk Institute. All men of science. 

          I changed my diet & and my heart disease has reversed – I’ve got the Thalium tread mill results (5 separate tests in 10 years) in pictures as proof. Diet is the ONLY thing I have changed. My total cholesterol is under 150 & triglyceride level is under 90. I know, I am one of the very rare ones – yea right. I’m just disciplined. 

           The books I mentioned, based upon science & not hocus pocus, you do not bother to look at the studies conducted & make outrageous conclusions & then say “I only believe science.” Hello, which science, the one of convenience?   

          The heart book was a study over 20 years with patients with & without the perceived genetic dispositions. The doctor PROVED & is now scientific fact that heart disease is NOT genetic & is diet (more specifically cholosterol related which the overwhelming majority comes from food fats). He’s been reviewed by the best minds of science & well over 95% agree with his conclusions.  

          The truth is, you don’t really believe in science, it sounds good but your statements, assertions & conclusions is clear evidence as to the contrary.   

           

          Reply
      • GoneWithTheWind August 26, 2011, 8:30 pm

        nutritition is my hobby, I have spent more time studying it then you can imagine. I too was sucked in by the myths and superstitions about food. Back in the 60’s I belelieved as you seem to that the books, magazines and “experts” knew something useful. But eventually you realize they are all quacks spouting their particular bias. Interestingly all the experts contradict each other. There is no food that hasn’t been hailed as lifesaving and denigrated by other experts as deadly. From high protein diets to high carb diets I’ve read and studied them all. Sooner or later you will figure this out. If you don’t, the good news is your body is so efficient and our food supply so diverse and nourishing it doesn’t really matter, you will be fine in spite of yourself.

        Reply
        • Jason August 27, 2011, 9:06 pm

          You’re right. Now go enjoy a Happy Meal, I’m sure your body will process it some how …

          Reply
          • GoneWithTheWind August 28, 2011, 12:17 am

            show me what is wrong with a McDonalds meal. Is it the bread (bun), the hamburger, the ketchup, the pickles? What is bad about it? It’s all just food, so much protein, fat and carbohydrate. That’s all food is. Sure there are vitamins and minerals, but essentailly food is all made up of the same things. The sugar in an organic apple is no different from the sugar in a supermarket apple. The protein in a McDonalds hamburger is no different from the protein in grassfeed beef hamburger.

          • The Hamburgular August 28, 2011, 10:12 am

            You really cannot be serious, now that’s embarrassing. Watch the Academy Award nominated “Super Size Me” then comment.  

            And here is a very well known FACT:

            After the aforementioned documentary was released & the subsequent huge backlash, ALL of McDonalds resturants removed the “Super Size” option from their menu & now add healthy, more natural choices. 

            Gee, I wonder why …

            Pick a new hobby or get better & much more up to date on the current one because you just showed how far you are behind the times.  

          • GoneWithTheWind August 28, 2011, 7:15 pm

            You can’t be serious! You get your health and nutrition information from mockumentaries like Super size me!! Did you think this was something scientific and serious? My point remains; what, exactly, in a McDonalds meal is “bad” for you? Are you seriously going to tell everyone not to eat hamburger or bread or catsup, or pickle… It’s just food, common everyday ingredients. Don’t be scared, start by looking at a McDonalds sandwhich. Take off the top of the bun and look at the hamburger and cheese. Examine the pickle touch the catsup. Careful! Don’t overdo it. Ease up on that scary thing. What do you see??? Anything scary? Suprise! It’s just food, just like mom used to make.

            I still order my McDonalds meals “supersized”. The crazies might have scared McDonalds from using that phrase but not me.

          • Jason August 28, 2011, 8:00 pm

            You say “The crazies might have scared McDonalds from using that phrase but not me”.  What can I say, a multi-billion dollar, international company does not scare so easily. 

            Like big tobacco they have enough money to completely bury the guy who made the movie & get enough injunctions to stop that movie from ever showing but could not – ever think about that? Hell, they took on the Austrailian government years back. 

            Maybe they could not succeed against the little independent film maker because it was most likely true. 

            Enjoy your fast food meals, you’ll never know the difference. 

            Enjoy your McDonalds & remember, se habla español. 
             

             

          • Jason August 28, 2011, 9:16 pm

          • GoneWithTheWind August 29, 2011, 11:49 am

            And yet no answer to the most basic and easy question. If McDonalds is bad what, exactly is bad? Is it the hamburger? The bun? The pickle? No one seems to know and yet they all seem to “know” McDonalds is bad for you. My theory is people are easily lead and they hear something that fits their predetermined ideas and buy into it hook line and sinker. I bet the majority of people who dislike McDonalds don’t like Walmart either and cannot give a legitimate reason for that bias. Most people go through their entire lives with their biases intact. I don’t care for bowling but I don’t spend my time trying to convince others that bowling is harmful.

          • Jason August 29, 2011, 2:28 pm

            If you cannot read & comprehend, there’s no point continuing. What’s funny is the vast majority knows the truth with far less evidence presented to you. Why on earth do you think McDonalds started altering their menu, because of one movie by a nothing of an independent film maker?  

            When your own AMA warns against the excessive fat which leads to hypertension & heart disease from McDonalds meals & dissuades parents from giving (un)Happy Meals due many inflictions of the youth, the Australian government originally banned McDonalds meats they were importing due to growth hormone additives given cows which leads to many types of cancers, an Academy Award nominated documentary which shows the highly detremental effects of McDonalds meals all under the unbiased supervision of one of your heros – a licensed MD, yet you know better, then you are the smartest man I’ve ever met. 

            Go figure, I’d meet THE nutritional world authority on an  obscure blog. 

            Sometimes fact is stranger than fiction.

            I tell you what, why don’t you prove your point by eating McDonalds meals & drinks only for the next 30 days –  3 squares a day & Super Size it & report back. It’s just a silly month & no cheating!

            Better consult your physician first.    

          • GoneWithTheWind August 30, 2011, 12:52 am

            Your comment: “What’s funny is the vast majority knows the truth with far less evidence presented to you” makes a good point. Most people do indeed believe what they are told especially if the person telling them has a “Dr” in front of his name. But in this case you have zero proof! McDonalds may well be the biggest selling fast food chain in America and yet not a single bit of proof that McDonalds is bad for you. Instead we get conjecture and mockumentarys as “evidence” of some evil food. But as I pointed out it is just food, just hamburger, bread, pickles, etc. What, exactly, is bad about McDonald’s food?? The fact that you cannot answer speaks volumes. Some vague reference to fat being bad for you yet fat is essential, cannot live without it. As I have said everyone with a food bias has declared one or another of the basic food groups to be bad for you. They cannot all be right and it is far more likely they are all wrong. You are so tied into your food biases that you actually think it is enlightenment handed down from above. There is no “bad” food and no magic herbs. Est, drink and be merry for tomorrow you may die.

          • Jason August 30, 2011, 2:13 am

            You said one thing right – life is short. Enjoy & let me know how the 30 day diet challenge turns out for you. Should be a cake walk since there is nothing wrong with McDonalds. Who knows, you just may prove that it is the best diet on the planet.

            I’m done with your dogmatic comments.

          • GoneWithTheWind August 31, 2011, 10:30 am

            That is the problem. No one seems capable of defining the best diet on the planet. If you put all the so-called experts in a room they couldn’t reach agreement and would probably end up in a fist fight. There is no perfect or best diet there is just food and different tastes and biases. For most people hamburger is fine but some of those people think a McDonalds hamburger is poison. For most people bread is fine but some think if the bread comes from McDonalds it is bad for you. Some people think anything not bought a Trader Joes will shorten your life. All of this is further complicated by the fact that some illnesses require special diets. Some of these diets avoid wheat products and others avoid sugar. But for the vast majority of people wheat and sugar are not bad for them. If you are unable to separate your biases from fact then you are unable to learn.

          • Jason August 31, 2011, 12:55 pm

            My biases are based upon DOING both diets, reading & studying both sides of the equation (which means equal). What you may not understand is I actually ate that crap for many years. I personally felt the effects of both types od diet & clearly came to a conclusion. The change was so obvious, profound & logical that I was amazed how radical it altered things.   

            You on the other hand will stomp your feet & proclaim something without considering another side – I did not say accept, I said consider. I’m sure a large degree of your unclear thinking & steadfast fist shaking is diet related. I will bet you a considerable sum that if you changed your diet to a cleaner burning body fuel which does not include any “junk food” you’d probably shed 20 lbs from your existing gut, you’d have twice the energy, think clearer & actualy be happier.

            You ask for “proof” and why? You’ll never believe it and will work to bash it because you want to be right for the sake of some pride issue. If you really knew how they really raised the cattle, processed the beef which contains most parts of the cow except the moo, precooked it, flash freeze it, add preservatives, deliver, cook it again & leave it in the grease laden, artery clogging warming trays, you would still say – we need fat, the arteries are too big anyway but still tastes like salted grease covered cardboard but boy that pickle sure is good!  

            Another thing you don’t realize is all of the additives & man made preservatives injected to those types of foods do not exit your body through elimination but hide in various areas of the body – another widely known fact.  

            I’m a pretty smart guy & I do not take anybody’s opinion – as far as life style changes, at face value – never have. I read, ask questions & always go to any opposing side of the matter to see if there any truth. I was recently asked to be the lead consultant for a company who was the object of a takeover by a firm with twice the member size – 10,000,  to stop the merger. The first thing I said right out of the box was, I’m am gathering information from both sides – good & bad, to see if there is any validity to it & see if it’s beneficial & to whom is to benefit & why. I said my terms – whatever I discover after I level the playing field (remove emotions)  I will my support those findings. It was my opinion based purely on facts & future projections.  

            The company of 5,000 members was serious outgunned & had very limited financial resources but was clearly the loser in the takeover. 

            I successfully organized the stop to the merger by using fact based information without “my opinion” (implies emotion) as to what I discovered to be right in fact, “we” won huge, sans the bitter battle. Our funds were near zero because the opposition had tied it up in a clever temporary move.  

            Point being I do not make assumptions on lifestyle & life changing decisions, do not raise the Jolly Roger flag at the McDonalds of the world without careful consideration because I, unlike you, do not want to look like a fool.

            You can freely choose what you want to put I your body. Trust me, if I thought McDonalds was ok to consume, it would be based upon more than taste, marketing & the charitable contributions Joan Kroc makes to the world.

            Go ahead give me a final shot, I love to laugh.           

          • PS August 31, 2011, 1:52 pm

            Before you respond, look up the word “pedantic” while gazing into the mirror. And please don’t be so predictable to think of using it back on me because I was far from being narrow in my responses.

            As Taco Bell’s new slogan goes – “Think Outside of the Bun”

          • PPS August 31, 2011, 1:58 pm

            I apologize for the various typos because I’m doing this on my phone & do not have the benefit of going back and proofing what I put down. It’s a real pain in the backside but what the heck, I’ll deal with it because it’s a challange.

          • GoneWithTheWind August 31, 2011, 7:11 pm

            Your description of processing cattle as a reason for believing McDonalds is bad for you applies to all the meat available in the supermarket. Unless you are a vegetarian or buy your meat from Chile you have eliminated an entire class of food from the discussion. Somehow I suspect you do eat meat and it is no different from the meat McDonalds uses. Which brings me back to the same question: If McDonalds is “bad” for you what then is good? No red meat? No meat of any kind? What?

            I asked for proof to inject reason into the discussion. If there were actually some proof or evidence that McDonalds hamburgers were bad for you or that meat was bad for you I would like to see it. There is zero evidence that meat eater or McDonalds eater die younger then those who eat no meat or no fast food. There is zero evidence that meat eaters or McDonalds eaters get sick more often then those who eat no meat or no fast food. Clogged arteries is mostly genetic. If you parents had clogged arteries then most likely you will too and not eating meat won’t prevent it anymore then eating at McDonalds will cause it.

            “all of the additives & man made preservatives injected to those types of foods do not exit your body through elimination but hide in various areas of the body”. Reminds me of those old stories of 8 year old cornflakes still hiding in your intestines. Some things do store in your body, like vitamin A & D. But that is a long way from claiming that all additives and man made preservatives will never be eliminated from your body. Pure hogwash and typical of the trendy organic crowd. Since people who eat organic food and are careful not to consume any preservatives don’t live any longer or healthier then those who eat regular super market food your argument is unproven.

            Your assumption that I do not look at all sides of this issue or that in my 50+ years of studying it that I somehow missed something is incorrect. I am still searching for the truths about food and health and am quite willing to change my current beliefs with scientific proof. But I am quite aware that even doctors and scientists have been complicit in outright fraud when it comes to diet, food, vitamins, supplements and alternative health. The world is full of quacks and charlatans and others who would separate you from your money and sell you magic beans or their latest book. Food fads come and go and everyone who buys into them believe in their heart that the wheat grass enemas or macrobiotic diet will make them live to be 101 and be able to run 4 minute miles and have sex twice a day for their entire life. I have yet to find even one food fad or alternative health fad that was worth spit. Not one! I wish there were something you could eat or rub on your forehead to cure illness or make you live longer. But so far nothing has lived up to the hype. There are no magic foods and there are no bad foods (at least as we consider foods). Eat a varied and diverse diet and you will be eating well. Your body will not know or care if your food came from Trader Joes or Safeway. It cannot tell the difference between the hamburger in a McDonalds serving or the hamburger from a grass fed cow. It is all hype!

            When I was a boy my parents worked in a carnival. I spent my entire summers as a child going from town to town with the carnival. I knew every person who worked for the carnival and knew the trick behind every show and game. For the most part the carnival was harmless fun but there was nothing “real” about it. Every game was fixed so that the Carnies could separate the Rube from his money. The organic food, alternative health care and supplement industry is exactly the same. I guess the major difference is most of the Rubes attending carnivals suspected all along that the games were fixed.

          • Jason August 31, 2011, 9:14 pm

            Finally, finally, finally I get it!!!!!

            Nothing was making sense to me & was hoping beyond hope quite frankly, that if I probed enough in several directions that your real objection would ultimately surface. 

            Your formative years growing up was with an environment of people deceiving innocent, hopeful people to profit on their blindness – life was rigged was the only possibility at that age. Nothing was as it seemed in your world, a foundation built on deception.  

            You see it really isn’t McDondalds because they spent considerable time making their image innocent & pure & they were many decades ago. They ranked up there with Disneyland as a pure safe haven & a true American institution everybody can trust. Their ideals died shortly after their founders – Walt Disney & Ray Kroc.

            We can go through the changed business model of profit at the expense of customers but why? One wants to hang on to one of the great bastions of childhood innocence, that safe haven away from the carnival life. That I can understand & respect but it is totally ok to question these institutions to protect the only true safe haven – your complete well being. People actually used to for one another in this country. 

            There was a time when things were not corrupt & people did not compromise their word – I remember those days. Today it seems the norm is almost the polar opposite & like it or not, you must not first trust. 
             
            I don’t need to prove their meat is not good because logic tells you so & you know it isn’t. 

            I must hand it to you, you are eating it with your eyes open so as to not kill off a wonderful memory. Some sacrafices are worth it. 

            Thank you, puzzle solved.   

          • Anonymous September 1, 2011, 12:09 pm

            So filtering out the ad hominem attacks from the last post all I am left with is that indeed you think meat is bad. Is that what you think is bad at McDonalds? The bun, pickle, ketchup and special sauce is OK? Not suprisingly I don’t agree. Our bodies were intended to enjoy an omnivorous diet and meat is a great source of essential nutrients. Choosing to not eat meat is an indivudal choice with dubious benefits but I have never understood the need to crerate the myth that meat is bad in an attempt to justify that choice. I choose to not eat artichokes but I assume artichokes are healthy food and don’t feel compelled to tell everyone they will kill you.

          • Jason September 1, 2011, 8:49 pm

            How would you know not eating meat is a dubious choice?

            I never said meat was bad, just mass processed, hormone injected, over preserved, flash frozen, sitting is a pool of grease adding to the high caloric & fat content meat like McDonald’s is bad. The evidence proves it –  even from the likes of the AMA but, that’s a dead issue because you just thumb your nose at anything that resides outside your tight, narrow view of life. 

            I know, I know – is it the pickle, the bun, the meat, the mayo, the catsup, the wrapper, the slave behind the counter serving the food – blah, blah, blah – oh, never mind the attached links sent, my lack of providing you concrete, steadfast, scientific, molecular, biological, triple blind study from 47 different experts from 18 countries just proved in your view, that the all is ok in the fast food world. That about sum it up?

            Again for the nth time, I was a meat eater & chose a different diet & never demonized meat except the above. I have 3 kids who enjoy meat & I only require that they eat quality cuts minus the steroids & other crap. I go to the local butcher (carnival barker) & he gives me a wink, brushes off the flies & says – ” here you go … sucker!”  

            Also, no fast food for the kids, primary due to cost & they can taste the difference between quality & glorified dog food. Really, they can.  

            Yes, we all sit together & happily enjoy our dinners – I even cook it for them & am a pretty darn good cook.  

            Some may think that if I was as pinheaded as you describe, I’d force my diet upon them – well, I do not.

            You put all herbal/natural products & companies into your “Carnies vs Rubes” box however, the exact same argument can be made of McDonalds, Burger Queen, Jacked in the Box, Taco Hell, Domino’s Pizza & any other fast food chain except, they have way more advertising dollars to pull in the Rubes to filet their wallets. Ever think of that? Of course not, how dare they do such evil!

            Your issue is a lack of trust pure & simple and unfortunately for you, you do not measure all things with the same yardstick probably due to a fear of being taken once again. 

            The life on the carnival circuit certainly added a skewed perspective of life.   Is this what happens when you get old, you hang on to things so tightly because any change is far too difficult to accept?

            Change is good, change is natural & change keeps the mind young.    

          • GoneWithTheWind September 2, 2011, 11:29 am

            I consider any fad diet to be a dubious choice. I think the best advice is to eat a varied and diverse diet and not to exempt entire classes of food such as meat or dairy. If you have some kind of illness or condition that requires a specific diet then by all means stick to that diet.

            It is your frustration that makes you keep resorting to ad hominem attacks and if I caused your frustration I appoligize my only intent was to have a discussion.

            I am not afraid of food. I too cook the food in the house and my favorites would make McDonalds look good. One of my favorites is chicken fried steak. I start with a 1/4 bacon cut into small pieces, the goal is to get the bacon grease. Then spoon off the bacon bits for the potatoes and cook the steaks in the grease. When they are done remove the steaks and add flour to the grease and slowly cook until brown. Then equal parts cream and water a dash of worcestershire sauce, salt and pepper to taste and stir until combined and bubbling. Put the steaks back in and cover, simmer on low for 30 minutes to an hour. Awesome!
            Baked potatoes with real butter, sour cream and those bacon bits and a vegetable and you have a soul satisfying meal.

            I am going to town today and looking forward to fast food for lunch. I am hoping for Baja Fresh but it could be McDonalds.

          • Jason September 2, 2011, 12:40 pm

            I’m not frustrated, I’m just flushing out objections and gathering information as to your processing style & what shapes your thinking.

            That meal sounds quite delicious, offer it to your cardiologist & see if he takes it. That should be an interesting conversation. Boy, you really enjoy thumbing your nose at the world.

            If you are lucky enough to get the upcoming bypass surgery (as opposed to clutching your chest and fatally falling over), you’ll change your tune.

            You see, there was a time when I thought I was bullet proof too. I ended up in the hospital, almost really died but got the life saving bypass. It’s a world different than going in for surgery for cancer removal.

            You experience something like that & your thoughts of living longer begin to explore other ways to extend life or maybe not – you can be the party till you drop mentality.

            Me, I like life, enjoy the world, love my kids & want to experience as much as possible. Rut is another word for grave & if I find myself there, I’ll just grab a day lilly & lay down for the permanent sleep.

            BTW, ad hominem attacks is redundant. Maybe something like “your ad hominem characterizations” would work better.

          • GoneWithTheWind September 2, 2011, 10:13 pm

            Some doctors and cardiologists know that most heart disease is genetic. Some still think it is your diet. The reasons are somewhat complex but the simplest explanation of why some doctors and some scientists still think it is caused by diet is that if you have the genetic predisposition for heart disease it can be controlled “somewhat” by diet, excercise and of course medicine. If you do not have a genetic predisposition for heart disease then following the heart healthy diet will do little for you except make you hate mealtime.

            I don’t really think the meal I described was thumbing my nose at the world. In fact it sounded so good I bought the makings while I was in town today. It is pure mythology that oil/fat is bad for you, it is an essential part of your diet. It does NOT clog your arteries. Your genes cause your body to make too much cholesterol or other genetic defects allow cholesterol to accumulate in your arteries.

            As I said before I wish it were true that there were magic foods or magic diets. No one wants to die and certainly no one wants to die young. Also as I said before if you have an illness or condition which is helped by a specific diet then by all means follow that diet. Eventually if we avoid accidents or murder we are all going to die from one of the big three (heart disease, cancer or stroke). It is inevitable that we all die the trick is to die old and not young. So statistically I am likely to die of a heart attack I only hope it is in my 80’s.

          • Jason September 3, 2011, 12:35 am

            What do you do, make this stuff as you go along? You have never bothered to look at anything I have suggested and you cannot provide proof from any credible source as to your assertions. Yet you bluster on authoritatively.

            Next time you visit ANY doctor, throw out your statement to see what he/she has to say about it –

            “It is pure mythology that oil/fat is bad for you, it is an essential part of your diet. It does NOT clog your arteries.”

            Don’t be a Rube the rest of your life & read this very conservative information from the American Heart Association:

            http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/FatsAndOils/Fats-Oils_UCM_001084_SubHomePage.jsp

            Of course I’m sure you’ll either not read it or do your predictable knee jerk response & say they are wrong & you know better or there exceptions or ….

            Here’s another proven fact for you to dispel – did you know that poor dental health can lead to heart disease?

          • GoneWithTheWind September 3, 2011, 11:56 am

            You misstate the issue. It isn’t up to me to prove food is safe. It is you making the unprovable claims that there is bad food and magic food. You don’t offer “proof” you offer likeminded critics with no proof. That has been my demand all along; prove it! Prove that you can live without any oil or fat in your diet.

            As for the idea that there are good fats and bad fats; this may be true. However the “experts” you cite all were in agreement that margarine was GOOD for you and butter was bad. Now they sing a different tune. Almost all of the hype about oil and fat is mythology and the hypers held opposing views a few short years ago. So my question to you is where they right then or now? When they change their minds again what will that mean about what they say today?

            Here is an undisputable fact; many people who eat a diet you and your “experts” disagree with live long and healthy lives and many people who follow your advice to a T die young from heart attacks and strokes. Was it the food???

          • Jason September 3, 2011, 1:15 pm

            You’re right, you win. All food is good for you, anything & everything you ingest has absolutely no effect on body chemistry, genetics or disposition. 

            You can eat McDonalds meals, every meal, everyday for a months & it will be perfectly healthy. Eat spoonsfull of lard, sugar & drink a quart of olive oil daily & it’ll be ok because they come from natural sources. The body is a miracle machine that adapts easily. 

            All experts – which include your favorite western medicine doctors, who have infinately more education, experience & witness numerous studies than you can ever possibly fathom are wrong, in error or whatever you conjure up to fit your view.  

            We started this discussion talking about your beliefs that western medicine doctors are the only knowledgeable sources, then contridict yourself by saying they are wrong because they cannot agree.

            This is commonly known as circle logic & you cannot help to win from losing.   

            I nor can any expert – world renown or not, cannot prove to your satisfaction that some things are simply bad for your health. You have an extremely narrow & unshakeable view of things based upon a Carnies vs Rubes syndrome & the ONLY thing that is right is your viewpoint, irrespective of reason or logic.   

            So, you might as well eat up whatever, drink a few bottle of wine daily because things are just fine in your world. 

            Best of luck to you ~   

          • Post Script September 3, 2011, 3:41 pm

            One of the first pieces of proof I offered you was in 2 books. One of the books had pure documented, photographic proof that a nearly no fat diet by itself reversed heart disease. But you, without giving any sort of look, decides that it was erronous, a fluke or some kind of weird conspiracy.

            The other offered thousands of case studies over a 20 period by a Dr. who originally was a skeptic of his own study – imagine that! You, in your infinite wisdom decides it is wrong based upon your paranoid predisposition that “they” have an agenda to get your money.

            Sadly, you’ll probably never get it, people are not after you & your money. Most have the best & a sincere intent to help and you know, some are actually proven to be right but YOU will never know it.

          • GoneWithTheWind September 3, 2011, 5:50 pm

            I believe in science not individuals. As I have already pointed out many so-called “experts” disagree. It is not uncommon in fact for “experts” to be wrong. I am sticking with science.

            I have already agreed that a specific diet and excercise could indeed reverse the problems related to heart disease and the harmful effects of a heart attack. But what you did not understand is this works for people who have a genetic predisposition for heart disease. You and the good doctor you cite have made the huge leap that it would work for everyone/anyone. It does not. If you do not have a genetic predisposition for heart disease or high blood pressure or high cholesterol then a “heart healthy diet” won’t make a difference. It is similar to the theory that if a machine needs a little oil to run smoothly then a lot of oil would be even better, obviously untrue. If YOU have a health problem that is helped by a specific diet by all means follow that diet. I have a good friend with celiac disease who follows a gluten free diet. I do not have celiac disease so the diet will not help me. It also won’t prevent me from getting the celiac disease. Do you understand how a specific diet might be helpful for a specific disease but provide no value if you do not have that disease?

          • Jason September 5, 2011, 12:40 pm

            Gone, with – the – wind, more appropriate than you can imagine. Wow, you need professional help. 

            You start off by fighting everything stating essentially everybody is a charleton because of your deeply embedded lie you lived in as the child of the carnival life.  

            Then morph into statements that you only believe in science, not individuals or experts, which is an oxymoron but you don’t get that.  

            I provide links & a couple of books – based upon science, to back up my position & you poo-poo them without giving them any benefit or consideration as to their credibility. These are not some dark cornered, witches brew pieces of research, they are some of the best man can find & they were proven to have considerable validity by men of science. Two independent studies of science, conducted over 20 years each. 

            Further you accuse me of having biases because you believe that I have a narrow dietary belief based upon some warped views regarding nutrition & fats. Yet, when I explain that my diet was the same as yours until I considered the other side of the equation, tried another path & got incredible, provable results, you once again accuse me of being blind. How does that work in your world? The fact is you are exactly what you accuse me of – completely biased.

            You talk about bell curves, superimposing them upon on other bits of imaginary information, provide no axis references, age ranges or anything numerical other peak & valley numbers and the tell me I know nothing about statistics because, you said so? You are looney & lost. You probably think Oswald killed Kennedy too when mathematically, it was impossible.

            “Common fallacies of scientists & researchers” as if you know more? Please, spare me Einstein.  

            You quote this gem & end it with – he didn’t know what he was saying – 

            “I am reminded of a statement a politician made after a considerable effort to improve the education system in his state; “there has been some success but half our students still are below average”. A smart man, a Doctor of education I believe and he really didn’t understand what he was saying.”

            Didn’t know what he was saying – what was it, Yogi Berra slip? Hello? 

            Let me give it a shot – 

            A. He’s a politician, which means he lies for a living & is most likely looking for more funding. 

            B. What if 60% of the students were below average & now only half (50%) were below average, wouldn’t a 10% improvement qualify as some improvement? 

            You give no other information & can only assume you want to use it to make you look smarter than him. That’s really stupid.  
              
            Here’s your truth:

            1. You like to think you’re smart, though evidence to the contrary, and enjoy arguing. You try to establish positions but unfortunately you work in a vacuum on a foundation of sand. 

            2. When confronted to provide ANY validity or basis to your arguements – that you are so sure that much of the world agrees with, you sophomorically try to turn it back on the one who questions you – that is really a psychological issue called avoidance & borders on delusional. 

            3. You are most likely over weight & I’ll guess by 25% minimum & don’t want to lose the weight even though it has been highly recommended by professionals. You want to eat whatever you want, throw caution to the wind because you’ve lived enough life & when it’s your time to die, it’s your time.

            Funny thing is most wouldn’t agree with that philosophy, but some could respect that you are telling the truth for you.

            So her you go & understand this – I have set you up to fail IF you respond by using your usual response patterns & mechanisms. Actually, I’ve done it along until you have sufficiently painted yourself into a corner as you’ve done – yes, even that statement was meant to ignite your pattern.  

            Here are your choices – 

            Walk across the “wet paint” in your “normal” responses, trying to poke holes & pointing fingers at me & or the world as being wrong using your psudeo elegant verbiage – 90% chance of that occurance.  

            Or, settle down and tell your truth that …. well, that’s your truth. If done correctly you can win huge – 10% chance of that happening because it would mean you’ld have to concede on your nonsense. Honestly, I don’t think you have it in you.  

            An old friend of mine once said “the truth will set you free but will probably piss you off first!” 

            Lastly, I will only read what you write but there will be a 100% chance I won’t respond because among many other things, you are not rational.

            Have fun ~        

        • Anonymous September 3, 2011, 7:23 pm

          Where in the hell does science come from, does it just materialize? By you own omission it comes from experts, remember those experts that removed your tumor? It was science based upon trial & error & experts that allowed you live & continue writing your silliness.   

          It is completely impossible to believe in science without believing experts.

          What you fail to see once again is your contridictions & dogmatic circle logic. 

          I did NOT have a genetic predisposition to heart disease yet, I had a heart issue & was sloely diet related. I actually proved it & was confirmed by a cardiologist, 2 independent heart surgeons, an Internist & world renown diet expert & head researcher of the Jonas Salk Institute. All men of science. 

          I changed my diet & and my heart disease has reversed – I’ve got the Thalium tread mill results (5 separate tests in 10 years) in pictures as proof. Diet is the ONLY thing I have changed. My total cholesterol is under 150 & triglyceride level is under 90. I know, I am one of the very rare ones – yea right. I’m just disciplined. 

           The books I mentioned, based upon science & not hocus pocus, you do not bother to look at the studies conducted & make outrageous conclusions & then say “I only believe science.” Hello, which science, the one of convenience?   

          The heart book was a study over 20 years with patients with & without the perceived genetic dispositions. The doctor PROVED & is now scientific fact that heart disease is NOT genetic & is diet (more specifically cholosterol related which the overwhelming majority comes from food fats). He’s been reviewed by the best minds of science & well over 95% agree with his conclusions.  

          The truth is, you don’t really believe in science, it sounds good but your statements, assertions & conclusions is clear evidence as to the contrary.   

           

          Reply
          • GoneWithTheWind September 4, 2011, 1:10 am

            Most people with high cholesterol (actually average or normal cholsterol but the doctors will ask them to either take medication or diet to reduce their cholesterol) do not have heart attacks! Most people who do have heart attacks do not have high levels of cholesterol (the levels I defined above). Most heart attacks are associated with a genetic illness such as diabetes, high blood pressure, blood clots or exceptionally high cholesterol levels (300 and above). Your lowered cholesterol level may help you and it may not. It is far more likely that you do indeed have a genetic predisp[osition for heart disease and you will have another heart attack in spite of your extremely low cholesterol levels.

            The doctors are having very little success with preventing heart attacks and are using the shotgun technique of insisting patients lower their cholesterol levels below normal. Sadly this isn’t working and is even causing more problems. Cholesterol is essential for body functions and extremely low levels can also cause serious illness and death.

            Understand one thing if you understand nothing else: If what you believe is true then we could stop all premature heart attacks. According to you and some “experts” it’s all about diet and cholesterol levels. But the success rate is very disappointing. The problem is that the doctors have nothing else. Maybe someday science will find the answer. Until then all they can do is shotgun the problem and hope for the best.

          • Jason September 4, 2011, 1:54 am

            Once again, no science as you proclaim to believe – just more of your baseless babbling. I’m going to call you out – only respond with ANY proof & or back-up information/data that supports what you just said. You must have it available since you know so much.

            Otherwise, your wasting time & full of baloney, which funnily enough, is high in fat – score a double entendre for Jason.

            No more responses from me without substantiations to your claims. The armchair quarterback (you) will have to put up or stay seated with the remote in one hand & a deep fried Oreo cookie in the other hand.

            Good luck Rube ~

          • GoneWithTheWind September 4, 2011, 12:14 pm

            I love oreo cookies!

            As I have said before you are the one on shaky ground making dubious health/medical claims so you are the one who needs to provide proof.

            Cholesterol is an interesting subject and here is a point to ponder: The cholesterol level in Americans would create a bell curve if it was plotted on a graph. The center would be cholesterol levels between 200-220. That is that range would be the normal or average. If you superimposed on this chart the levels of cholesterol of people who had heart attacks they would show up all over that bell curve with a preponderence around and above the 300 level. What this shows you is: A) High cholesterol as it relates to risk of heart disease is around and higher then 300 (not the 200 that some doctors will try to convince you). B) that some cause other then cholesterol (below 300) is responsible for heart disease, i.e. that cholesterol is not the cause.
            Those other causes are: Diabetes, high blood pressure, blood clotting diseases and exceptionally high cholesterol levels. (There are a handful of other minor genetic causes as well). Each of these causes/diseases can be treated. Blood clotting diseases can be treated with Coumadin or aspirin. Diabetes can be treated with insulin and diet. High cholesterol (300 and above) can be treated with medication (statins). High blood pressure can be treated with a variety of treatments including weight loss and excercise.

            Now here is the nugget of information: BECAUSE these peripheral causes/diseases can be treated with: diet, excercise, aspirin, etc. it is easy for a good and honest scientist or doctor AND for a charlatan to make the case that diet or excercise or aspirin will cure/prevent heart disease. But it ONLY works for the individual with one of the underlying diseases. If you don’t have diabeties then it is likely that diet will not prevent a heart attack. If you don’t have a clotting disease it is likely that aspirin will not prevent a heart attack. If you don’t have HIGH cholesterol (that is 300 or above) then cutting cholesterol either by diet or medication will not prevent a heart attack. This is true even though tests and studies will find evidence that these things work!!

            If you understand what I just explained and why it is these anomolies show up in studies and give credence to these prescriptive treatments even though they will not work across the board then you will understand the whole point of this discussion. If you do not understand it then I doubt you can be convinced away from your biases. I would suggest you take some classes in statistics to better understand it’s strengths and weaknesses and how it is misused.

          • Jason September 4, 2011, 1:01 pm

            As I thought, no back-up whatsoever to your claims, just more anally dispensed nonsense. I guess your idea of prevention is an after the fact measure, as moronic as that sounds. 

            Incindently, my first 2 years of college was  80% math & physics. I believe I have a pretty decent grasp of numerical relationships.  

            End of discussion & good luck.

            PS

            Darwin was wrong.   

          • GoneWithTheWind September 4, 2011, 8:50 pm

            If you do understand statistics and yet believe what I just explained needs proof then there is something in this process that is escaping you.
            I have just pointed out the most common fallacy most scientists and researchers make when they use statistics to identify and assign causation to a problem. Many who make this mistake never realize what they have done or why it is incorrect. After all the data pointed to “something” and the computer said…

            I am reminded of a statement a politician made after a considerable effort to improve the education system in his state; “there has been some success but half our students still are below average”. A smart man, a Doctor of education I believe and he really didn’t understand what he was saying.

            There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

          • Anonymous September 5, 2011, 12:42 pm

            Gone, with – the – wind, more appropriate than you can imagine. Wow, you need professional help. 

            You start off by fighting everything stating essentially everybody is a charleton because of your deeply embedded lie you lived in as the child of the carnival life.  

            Then morph into statements that you only believe in science, not individuals or experts, which is an oxymoron but you don’t get that.  

            I provide links & a couple of books – based upon science, to back up my position & you poo-poo them without giving them any benefit or consideration as to their credibility. These are not some dark cornered, witches brew pieces of research, they are some of the best man can find & they were proven to have considerable validity by men of science. Two independent studies of science, conducted over 20 years each. 

            Further you accuse me of having biases because you believe that I have a narrow dietary belief based upon some warped views regarding nutrition & fats. Yet, when I explain that my diet was the same as yours until I considered the other side of the equation, tried another path & got incredible, provable results, you once again accuse me of being blind. How does that work in your world? The fact is you are exactly what you accuse me of – completely biased.

            You talk about bell curves, superimposing them upon on other bits of imaginary information, provide no axis references, age ranges or anything numerical other peak & valley numbers and the tell me I know nothing about statistics because, you said so? You are looney & lost. You probably think Oswald killed Kennedy too when mathematically, it was impossible.

            “Common fallacies of scientists & researchers” as if you know more? Please, spare me Einstein.  

            You quote this gem & end it with – he didn’t know what he was saying – 

            “I am reminded of a statement a politician made after a considerable effort to improve the education system in his state; “there has been some success but half our students still are below average”. A smart man, a Doctor of education I believe and he really didn’t understand what he was saying.”

            Didn’t know what he was saying – what was it, Yogi Berra slip? Hello? 

            Let me give it a shot – 

            A. He’s a politician, which means he lies for a living & is most likely looking for more funding. 

            B. What if 60% of the students were below average & now only half (50%) were below average, wouldn’t a 10% improvement qualify as some improvement? 

            You give no other information & can only assume you want to use it to make you look smarter than him. That’s really stupid.  
              
            Here’s your truth:

            1. You like to think you’re smart, though evidence to the contrary, and enjoy arguing. You try to establish positions but unfortunately you work in a vacuum on a foundation of sand. 

            2. When confronted to provide ANY validity or basis to your arguements – that you are so sure that much of the world agrees with, you sophomorically try to turn it back on the one who questions you – that is really a psychological issue called avoidance & borders on delusional. 

            3. You are most likely over weight & I’ll guess by 25% minimum & don’t want to lose the weight even though it has been highly recommended by professionals. You want to eat whatever you want, throw caution to the wind because you’ve lived enough life & when it’s your time to die, it’s your time.

            Funny thing is most wouldn’t agree with that philosophy, but some could respect that you are telling the truth for you.

            So her you go & understand this – I have set you up to fail IF you respond by using your usual response patterns & mechanisms. Actually, I’ve done it along until you have sufficiently painted yourself into a corner as you’ve done – yes, even that statement was meant to ignite your pattern.  

            Here are your choices – 

            Walk across the “wet paint” in your “normal” responses, trying to poke holes & pointing fingers at me & or the world as being wrong using your psudeo elegant verbiage – 90% chance of that occurance.  

            Or, settle down and tell your truth that …. well, that’s your truth. If done correctly you can win huge – 10% chance of that happening because it would mean you’ld have to concede on your nonsense. Honestly, I don’t think you have it in you.  

            An old friend of mine once said “the truth will set you free but will probably piss you off first!” 

            Lastly, I will only read what you write but there will be a 100% chance I won’t respond because among many other things, you are not rational.

            Have fun ~        

          • GoneWithTheWind September 5, 2011, 8:02 pm

            More ad hominem attacks, you really should avoid that it makes it appear you have nothing of substance left and have to resort to name calling.

            Actually I only believe in three conspiracy theories and one of them is that Oswald didn’t kill Kennedy. Although I’m not sure how that helps your position.

            You “provided links and a couple of books” and presumably you think that is “proof” of something. I can provide perhaps a million links to people who believe in space aliens but surely you don’t think that proves the existence of space aliens. You have to evaluate things in life with common sense and life experiences. There is no magic food/supplement and there are no “bad” foods. While it is true that a specific diet will help people with specific conditions it is NOT true that the same diet will help everyone. That is the point, that is what you cannot accept.

            If you didn’t understand the bell curve discussion how can you claim to understand statistics? What I explained was incredibly basic and intuitive, but yet it confused you…

            Actually my weight is a perfect, BMI 27 which is empirically the ideal weight. Not intentional just lucky. I eat three square meals a day and a big snack every night. As I said weight is mostly a genetic thing and I lucked out. I do eat whatever I want and I’m sure some of my choices would confound anyone with food biases. But I eat a varied and complete diet as everyone should.

            I choose “GoneWithTheWind” as my nom de plume because of the line in the movie of the same name where Clark Gable told Vivien Leigh what happened to her world as a result of the war. The more famous line was “frankly my dear I don’t give a damn” but that was too long to use.

  • little roach August 25, 2011, 2:30 pm

    Calamity Jane .great post.if people was to raise there children, like I was raised.there would be a lot less problems,out there. now i’m not talking about beating you’r kid’s, just don’t raise them, like there you’r freind,they are you’r children. theach them right from wrong, show them how to do thing’s, on there on. an for peet sake teach them the old rule. do unto other’s as you would have done unto you. an plz. drop the time out, some time’s you have to put you’r foot down.an stand you’r ground. i raised two boy’s. now they are 23 an 25. an never been in jail,or court. thank god.

    Reply
  • Rob August 25, 2011, 2:30 pm

    Jane,

    Some good points, but when I first read your post, I thought Hillary Clinton had jumped on the preparadness bandwagon. I don’t really think it “takes a village” to get kids involved in self-sufficient living or outdoor skills, just good parents, grandparents, friends, etc. And no, I don’t feel that it’s my responsibility to become a “community organizer” (unless, of course, I have presidential asperations) to do my part. Liberals have been laying guilt trips on us for not “doing our part” for so many years it makes me want to barf. Let’s leave the community organizing and takes a village crap to the ever growing segment of our country that believes individualism is an archaic notion, and has no place in modern America.

    Rob

    Reply
    • T.R August 26, 2011, 1:07 pm

      Well you have to understand that the liberals are communists at worst and socialists at best . They follow the same techniques that communism has laid down for managing and manipulating a society .
      Snitch on thy neighbor , labels to demonize free thinkers , party line or jail ( look at affirmative action , gun legislation , etc ) Liberals despise the constitution , free enterprise , and any view contradictory to theirs , so much so they want to arrest you for daring to have free thought .

      Reply
      • Jason August 26, 2011, 5:21 pm

        Do you ever have a reasonably happy or positive thought?

        Reply
        • T.R August 26, 2011, 9:22 pm

          All the time ! ;)

          Reply
        • T.R. August 27, 2011, 12:01 pm

          Besides , your personal attacks on people dont exactly raise the bar to any higher level than you think my comments are at do they ? Preppers and survivalists are a niche group , we are an extreme minority in this country . I bring up things up that may not be with our thinking but that doesn’t mean its a totally invalid point either . If we were the majority in the population , the country would not be in the condition its in now , would it ?
          but we are not and never will be , so it is what it is . To the majority of the population , WE are the whackos and the paranoids who are out of touch . Just sayin . it is what it is ……………..
          Stars and Bars !

          Reply
          • Jason August 27, 2011, 3:37 pm

            If you remember, my first comment to you was in response to your Hitler type comment of ridding the world those you deemed unworthy of oxygen, which essentially changed the bar to a despicable level. You further cement you predudicial position by saying you’d say the 
            same thing if you lived on China – obviously believing your “kind” (not survivalists) are the center of the universe. How arrogant & vile – just saying …

            You say –  “To the majority of the population , WE are the whackos and the paranoids who are out of touch”. With comments like yours, I wonder why people on the outside think that way …

            Prepping & fundamental survivalism is thousands of years old & nearly independent of world circumstances. It is prudent & wise just in case of infirmity, job loss, family misfortunes that sometimes happens – even to the best of them.

            Mormons have been prepping for a century, many others have been as well but it is their lifestyle not some fear based reasoning like the stock market crash, Obama changing the USA to a communist state or Y2K.  

            The whacko mentality comes in when people start making something from nothing or extrapolating upon news events. Example – people riot in Argentina, you better load your guns because it’s coming to America – people actually believed it. 

            In fact it got so bad on another blog to the far right on your dial about the S Hitting TF, that I read about a year ago how some poor follower actually commented that he drove a neighborhood & could see the changed attitude in people’s faces. What a joke & a poor one at that.  

            So you have a problem with me commenting on your statements – too bad, I won’t let the bigotry & negative crap go by without calling it for what it is. You are inappropriate on a very basic level.  

                 

          • T.R August 27, 2011, 5:07 pm

            Talk to the hand .

          • T.R August 27, 2011, 5:39 pm

            Bigoted ? damn ! that must be why my girl is a Russian Jew .
            go figure …………..

          • Jason August 27, 2011, 7:18 pm

            You poor misguided man – thinking being in a relationship with a Jew exempts you from being a bigot.

            Listen Scarecrow, when you finally reach Oz be sure the Wizard doubles your request.

          • T.R August 27, 2011, 9:56 pm

            Talk to the Hand anklebiter .

          • Jason August 27, 2011, 10:37 pm

            Oooooh, you got me …

          • T.R August 28, 2011, 1:49 pm

            ……you hear something sweety ? ………no?………..either did I …..

          • Jason August 28, 2011, 6:35 pm

            Music to your ears –

            T.R
            I could wile away the hours
            Conferrin’ with the flowers
            Consultin’ with the rain
            And my head I’d be scratchin’
            While my thoughts were busy hatchin’
            If I only had a brain

            I’d unravel any riddle
            For any individ’le
            In trouble or in pain

            (Dorothy)
            With the thoughts you’d be thinkin’
            You could be another Lincoln 
            If you only had a brain

            T.R
            Oh, I would tell you why
            The ocean’s near the shore
            I could think of things I never thunk before
            And then I’d sit and think some more

            I would not be just a nuffin’
            My head all full of stuffin’
            My heart all full of pain
            I would dance and be merry
            Life would be a ding-a-derry
            If I only had a brain ……

          • T.R August 29, 2011, 12:58 am

            Whats that noise honey ?……….. Ahhhhhhhh its just that little anklebiter yipping again ………..

          • Ankle Biter August 29, 2011, 4:55 pm

            For one who doesn’t “give a rats ass what others think” you sure responded a lot to the bait. However, I’ve successfully embedded my point without the “chapping your ass and pulling hair” as you so eloquently put it.

            Yip, yip, yip.

            Ok your turn, give me another one of those remarkably clever responses from your single arrow quiver ~

            Veselit’sya!

  • Gobbedyjook August 25, 2011, 3:00 pm

    Are you MAD?!?!

    There’s a 100-years hurricane heading straight for New York City!

    If that’s not fodder for a good discussion of the apocalypse, I don’t know what is. The chance to use a bugout bag in the next week is about a million times better than it has been for years. Get crackin’!

    Reply
    • Odd Questioner August 25, 2011, 4:26 pm

      “There’s a 100-years hurricane heading straight for New York City!”

      It doesn’t look all that big from here (Oregon). :p

      Sorry – I didn’t mean to be completely flippant about it, but when my sister in Palm Beach, FL isn’t worried about it (she’s lived through quite a few of the bigger ones), then I’m not going to worry too much about it.

      Your mileage may vary, of course, and even storms that seem little to folks who see them constantly, may seem like monsters to folks who rarely if ever see one.

      Reply
      • Gobbedyjook August 25, 2011, 5:21 pm

        NO!

        We’re clearly all going to die.

        Oregon Schmoregon.

        Seriously though, NYC hasn’t had a serious hurricane since like 1899, and there’s a real question of preparedness at the municipal level and at the the level of the state. It doesn’t have to be a Cat 5 to do a shitload of damage. One of the worst ones in the Mid-Atlantic coast in recent years was a relatively low intensity, but large and slow storm. Flooding often does more damage in these things than the wind and debris.

        If you happen to be in Florida, then the cities are well prepared for hurricanes. Do you really think that Scranton is? Is Syracuse prepared for an all-out evacuation of NYC?

        I’m not saying it will happen in two days…. but it might.

        Reply
        • irishdutchuncle August 26, 2011, 9:14 am

          i don’t know about syracuse, but the wilkes-barre, scranton area took a major hit from hurricane agnes back in 1972. you could still see the high water mark in harrisburg, five years later… they didn’t get the high winds, but they sure got the rain. everyone over age forty in eastern PA should probably remember. (i hope)

          Reply
        • Odd Questioner August 28, 2011, 11:51 am

          Actually, now that we pretty much see what’s transpired, what do you think?

          Here’s a short version of my thoughts:

          * So far, one guy died; a 50-some year old surfer in New Jersey who couldn’t resist the waves.

          * No idea what the property damage is just yet, but I bet we’re not seeing Katrina-like damage.

          * NYC evacuated surprisingly well, at least from what little news makes it out this far.

          Reply
    • Calamity Jane August 25, 2011, 4:51 pm

      hahahaha.. Gobbedy, I wrote this a couple of days ago and didn’t have time last night to rewrite for current events. Plus, I’m in Iowa. I’ve never lived on a coast. What I know about hurricanes would fit in a thimble. I’m pretty sure Jarhead’s got you covered though, swing through tomorrow morning. :-D

      Reply
      • Gobbedyjook August 25, 2011, 5:14 pm

        Phiew.

        Knew I could count on you.

        Reply
    • T.R August 26, 2011, 1:15 pm

      Anything that knocks a building down in New York is doing them a favor ;) , used to live back east , way too many dilapidated old buildings and an antiquated infrastructure on top of it . Made in 1850 and should have been torn down in 1950 . Building code ? whats that ?

      Reply
  • gat31 August 25, 2011, 10:48 pm

    just seen an updated map of this hurricane. I hope you all on a east coast line are ready. Good luck and stay safe out there.

    Reply
  • ruggedfox August 25, 2011, 10:58 pm

    Just looking at some of the posts on here I am saddened that some people have not gotten a good experience from Boy Scouts. All 3 of my sons are scouts the oldest is an Eagle Scout and is currently serving in the army as a medic. I would reccomend people check out different BSA Troops in their area and find one that is active and has good adult leaders. I am the Scoutmaster of our troop and we have done a wilderness survival weekend every year for the last 10 years. The boys love it when you take all the creature comforts away and they have to fend for themselves. I would put our boys up against some of the best preppers out there for outdoor skills and knowledge. We practice all our basic skills regularly and The boys are never handed anything without meeting requirements. I also live and Iowa and would like to invite you on one of our campouts in the future if you would be interested. Great post as it is really important to train the youngsters to take over from us some day and maybe even take care of us. Wish we had someone to teach old skills like canning/ weaving / candle and soap making. Oh well keep up the great work!!

    Reply
    • Jason August 26, 2011, 1:07 am

      Thank you for adding a positive perspective – leadership does make all of the difference. Becoming an Eagle Scout is a rare honor & you should be proud – your son will go far in life.

      Great mentoring job dad.

      Reply
  • Laura August 25, 2011, 11:08 pm

    I am a former public & private classroom teacher (now a homeschooling one). My years “in the trenches” led me to conclude that the biggest problem we have is parents not parenting. The big city nearest us (where we get “local news”) and our own rural county are both constantly harping on how the superintendent (or teachers or Dept of Education or whoever) should do this or that to “bring up test scores” and so on. Baloney!

    To begin with, test scores are so overly emphasized, but I won’t get started on that. Then there are up to 30 children of wildly varying ability levels all crammed into one room for a single person to teach everything they need to know in a year. Thinking that a new math program/teaching philosophy/learning style/technology is the answer is silly.

    But the bottom line is that until parents stop shirking their responsibilities, the schools will only continue to deteriorate. We will only see an improvement if parents send their children the message (by their actions, not just their words!) that they expect their children to be well-behaved, take responsibility for their belongings/homework/actions…, work hard, and aim high.

    When children are taught that it’s never their fault, that exceptions should be made for them, that the work is too hard, and so on, we can expect them to adopt that attitude and achieve accordingly. If respect and personal accountability and discipline return, then we may see some improvements. Until then, it’s all just talk.

    Reply
    • T.R August 27, 2011, 5:22 pm

      Agreed , my sisters are teachers , they have a few stories …….. then on top of what you mentioned , the feds trying to ” mainstream ” retarded or semi retarded kids into the regular classroom . Some are so disruptive and out of it that it actually prevents the other kids from learning properly . The teachers are powerless to do anything . And the classroom does become a big day care for some ” parents ” . Bless you guys for trying , its definitely a calling , because your under paid and under appreciated . Keep up the good fight .

      Reply
    • Jason August 28, 2011, 12:33 am

      Laura, you are so right – many parents seem to think that schools are a babysitting service & the teachers are supposed to do it all & throw up their hands when little Johnny cannot read. Simply amazing.

      One of the biggest crimes in this nation is the continual cuts the government makes in education. This statement cannot be used enough – children are our future.

      Imagine if you paid teachers a healthy salary, gave them all of the tools needed, resonsable class sizes, no tenure to ensure they do not get complacent & drop the idea of high test scores in order to get funding. Imagine the type of kids we’d turn out.

      I was very fortunate to have both my older kids to attend a charter school (no cost to me) that was set up this way – what a fantastic, well rounded education they received. There is definately a difference between them and their friends who attended “normal” public school.

      My hat is off to you.

      Reply
      • Post Script August 28, 2011, 12:47 am

        My son’s senior thesis was on … nutrition. He spend an entire semister doing research & creating a complete presentation, which included a PowerPoint, a physical model all delivered to a large live audience. I wonder if they do that much in Med school with regards to nutrition … doubt it.

        You’d be amazed how far research has come in the last decade, let alone since the 60’s.

        Reply
  • Michael August 26, 2011, 12:30 am

    Great post.

    My sister had a pea patch plot in a neighborhood with a lot of Ukrainian immigrants in it when her daughter was born. A bunch of her first words were names of vegetables in Ukrainian. That kid spent a good chunk of her first 3 years in that pea patch eating veggies straight off the vine and out of the ground.

    Now she’s a super active and healthy 11 year old (and 5’6″!!!). She still knows and loves her veggies, but she’s a “normal” 11 year old too. She listens to pop music and will eat a little junk food every now and again. My sister’s trying to teach her the “old stuff” the kid can cook and fix things, is pretty good with a needle and thread. But, she’s trying to let her be a normal, carefree, kid as well.

    Reply
    • Jason August 28, 2011, 10:56 pm

      Both my older kids (18 & 16) were fed all natural foods – super smoothies every morning and a well balanced diet without ANY fast foods. The result? Straight A students, athletes at the top of their game, clear thinkers, no drugs & not lazy. I’m sure diet had nothing to do with it – yea, right.

      Reply
  • Gobbedyjook August 26, 2011, 5:40 am

    Chris Christie was just on TV saying this could be a 100 years event in New Jersey!

    Am I prophetic? I am suddenly very intelligent. Or maybe I just paid attention to the NOAA forecast.

    Reply
  • JohnDoe1999 August 31, 2011, 2:47 pm

    I’m a 17 year old. Have been seriously into prepping since 16. My father introduced me to it when I was 10. I recommend watching Nutnfancy’s “lessons of my father – Depussification” video http://www.youtube.com/user/nutnfancy#p/search/0/Dfx73Z6fhbc . (I apologize for the rude title, but the video is excellent) When I watched it it reminded me of my father before he passed when I was 11; Nutnfancy stresses 1. Self Reliance, 2. Toughness, and 3. Work Ethic. Reminds me of going to karate 3 times a week , cutting firewood, and being instructed on giving myself first aid after accidents in the hills. I learned work ethic from the wood, self reliance from self-defense and first aid, and toughness from getting hit in the dojo (along with Honor, Respect, Self Esteem, and Humility from getting yelled at.)

    Reply
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